The best choice of camera for 500€

[Jaimiepeeters]

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Hi guys

 

As somebody that is growing into the Leica family, I was wondering what one best could buy for lets say 500€.

 

I own a Minilux, have my eye on a CL, but I thought I'd open this thread to collect all possible choices.

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[andybarton]

Film camera?

[Jaimiepeeters]

Film camera?

 

Yes sir..

[kokoshawnuff]

a nice user M3 can be had for about that, or one of several from voigtlander. but then you need to consider lenses which would range between 50€ (a couple old ltm lenses) and 8000€ (Noctilux)

[earleygallery]

Well....the Minilux has a fine lens but is limited by the features of the camera.

 

For your budget I'd look at an M2 or one of the R line.

[Jaimiepeeters]

Well....the Minilux has a fine lens but is limited by the features of the camera.

 

For your budget I'd look at an M2 or one of the R line.

 

Not the CL ?

[earleygallery]

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Not the CL for me. It's rangefinder isn't as good as in an M, and you're restricted with the viewfinder frame lines for 40 and 90mm.

 

Assuming that you don't want an SLR then I'd say an M2 is a much better option than a CL.

[250swb]

I would look for an M2 as well. For instance my local dealer has one in at £400 (minus a lens) that comes with a years warranty, so a fairly safe buy for somebody new to this range. So they are out there.

 

With an M2 you get a better range of framelines (IMO) than am M3, and the price of M3's is just a little more to start with, so you tend to get a camera in better condition for the money with an M2. The lens you would need to budget more money for, but it needn't get too expensive. With M adapters you also have the LTM lenses to look at from both Leica and Cosina Voigtlander.

 

Steve

[andybarton]

I started with an M2. Never looked back.

[stunsworth]

Is that 500€ including a lens? If so anything from the M range is probably beyond your budget. You could probably get an old R SLR with something like a 50mm Summicron - or an SL with an older version of the lens.

 

The SL is a simpler camera than the Rs, but larger and heavier.

 

These are all old cameras, make sure that they are working properly before buying.

[masjah]

A CM overcomes a lot of the limitations of the Minilux (though it's a fixed lens). Second hand examples are within budget.

[Jaimiepeeters]

I'm seeing a couple of M2's that are in proper condition. Seems that this might be the right solution for me to start with indeed. But the lenses are quite expensive. Perhaps some advice on that part?

 

 

ps: I'm currently shooting with a Fuji X100 (which I love for 99% and 1% hate for it's slowness in focussing). I also have a Canonet 28 (QL17 on the way), Praktica MTL 5 (Super LTL on the way), Leica Minilux, Yashica T4, Nikon F4, Nikon F90x, Nikon N90, Polaroid 101 and a Polaroid 600.

[jeverettfine]

I recently purchased an recently c&a'd M2 here in the states for $550 and a 35 Summaron f3.5 with the M3 viewfinder (which is a nice lens) for $440. I was hungry for a vintage outfit to add to my M6 etc. Very nice useable outfit for under 1000 US dollars. I like the way the M3 viewfinder on the 35 selects the 50 frameline...very nice for someone who wears glasses such as myself. The M3 type 35 lenses are overlooked. They work fine on all M bodies and usually sell for less than lenses without the "eyes".

[Cheekyguille]

If you wait for the right offer you may find:

 

M3 double stroke body around $600 US, 50mm Summicron collapsible/rigid $400 US seen them. Factor in the cost of a meter unless you already have one.

 

M2 around $600 US, 50mm Summicron collapsible/rigid $400 seen them. Factor in the cost of a meter unless you already have one.

 

CL body + 40, Summicron $800 US, seen them. Meter included.

 

Leica III with several 50mm screw in options :-)) $800 US seen them, factor in the cost of a meter unless you already have one.

 

M6 body only and a pinhole around $1,000 US Meter included.

 

These are sort of bottom prices so you'd need to be careful about finding items in the best condition possible, preferably with warranty so you might not find the surprise of the cost to repair. At these price level minty examples are likely out of consideration.

 

The question you have to ponder is whether you want to buy into the M system, in which case the M2 is probably the best way to go. You will get a solid and heavy body with frame lines to cover the range from wides to short teles, no meter which you will have to buy separately. With an M2 you'd be de facto in the M club with a real Leica The other way to go is buy a CL, does pretty much the same as an M with Leica lenses and has an operational meter plus is much more compact and light! Downside, for some, is the frame lines which at 40 and 90 were conceived to non-compete with the M's typical 35 and 50. In the end it is form over function, vs function over form. Either of them are just tools, neither will make you a better photographer.

 

The M3 is a also a lovely choice that gives a 35 mm lens frame lines with googles, but not with the modern 35mm lenses. These lenses with googles are lovely by the way. Thus perhaps not the best way to start.

 

I own all these five models and ironically the M3 is my favorite and where I would start perhaps due more to non-rational reasons and because I feel that the authenticity plus use-ability of this machine is unsurpassed. My IIIF is my second favorite almost purely as an object :-))

 

I also suggested 50mm lenses as a start as they tend to be lower priced than the other normal, 35mm. Lens and price discussion is a whole other topic ;-)

 

Cheers and good luck hunting!

 

Guille

[viramati]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons and if you want to use leica Glass how about the Konica Hexar RF

[kokoshawnuff]

I'm seeing a couple of M2's that are in proper condition. Seems that this might be the right solution for me to start with indeed. But the lenses are quite expensive. Perhaps some advice on that part?

 

There are several ltm lenses that can be purchased for under 100€ (if you are patient or lucky, 50€). Some of the canon ltm lenses are great performers for low prices (like the 135mm, 100mm, 85mm, and the 50 2.8), as are the few Minolta Rokkor I've used. For under 30€ you can get Russian copy lenses, like jupiter and Industar. The best modern options for your budget would be a Voigtlander color-skopar in various focal lengths

[Jaimiepeeters]

This is really helpful and I'm looking forward to more replies from experienced Leicanians

 

I do have a meter so no worries there.

[normclarke]

Could look at an M4-2, they seem to go cheaper than an M2 due to in my opinion a bad press. I am on my second and prefer them to the M2. If you avoid the first batch they are newer than the M2 and are not susceptible to the main prism delamination inherent in the M2.

 

Best,

 

normclarke.

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[philipus]

Ignore cosmetics and get one that looks used provided the internals and optics are working OK. You'll save lots that way.

 

One thing though - - I ordered my M3 from Tamarkin in the US (great service) and therefore had to pay the Dutch customs, which added 19% plus a 3,7% import fee (which I was prepared for).

 

So you have to factor that into the equation, unless you're lucky - which one can be - that the parcel goes through unchecked (if you buy from a private seller you might be more lucky with the customs but naturally I don't advise to fool the system by erroneous contents declarations - plus you don't get a warranty then, of course).

 

You won't run this risk within the EU.

 

There is a Swedish dealer, L-Foto, which still has the same M3 for sale which I considered at one point.

 

Leica M

 

It costs 4900 SEK which is about 550€. Condition C. If you email them they will send you photos (I've seen them and the camera looks quite good). They also have an M2 for the same price. And they have quite a few lenses.

 

Another Swedish dealer, Wibergs in Stockholm, also has an M2 in C condition for 4950SEK.

 

http://www.wibergsfoto.se/ (under Leica, then scroll down).

 

Yet another Swedish dealer (sorry), Schönherrs Foto, has an M3 (B-) for 4900SEK and an M4 © for (a rather incredible) 3900SEK. They also have a 50/2,0 Summicron (C+) for 3400SEK.

 

Sch

 

If I were to choose between M3 and M2/M4, it'd be the M3. True, it lacks 35mm framelines but there are goggled lenses that sort that out which weigh the same as non-goggled ones and have the same quality. Plus you'll have an extraordinary viewfinder at all other times.

 

You can get a much cheaper body if you go for the Barnacks. They're great fun to use and look truly cool. Plus they're smaller than the M.

 

Red Dot Camera in the UK often has lots of options, usually beginning at about £200, and offer quick service (I've bought lenses from them).

 

I bought my Leica II from Leicashop in Vienna which also has very good service and accurate descriptions. I can also recommend Foto Prisma in Italy for quick service and accurate descriptions.

 

There are loads of other dealers too. Newoldcamera in Italy has a very big selection and reasonable prices - for some reasons the Italians seem to have better prices than the Germans; that said, Meister Camera does have a big selection too.

 

There are dealers in Holland, too, of course. Re Schouten be careful that they add the VAT on some items within the EU (ie the prices for these items are, as I understand it, listed without the VAT). Collectcamera is another which also has quite a lot. I haven't used either but I have noticed that both have really high prices usually.

 

Screw mount lenses are inexpensive and work with both Barnacks and M (with an adapter). Consider a clean Summitar 50 or an Elmar 50. I'm very happy with my Summitar and at f2 it is very useful.

 

Hope it helps some

Philip

[Jaimiepeeters]

This helps more than I could have imagined! Thank you so much (fellow dutchie).

I will take my time and virtually visit all these dealers you mentioned and see what I can come up with.

 

So its definitely (probably ) going to be an M2, M3 or M4 depending on what's offered. They are all full frame correct? I do appreciate a 35mm more than 50mm but I wouldn't pass on a good deal when I see it.