tobey bilek Posted January 4, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted January 4, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wall Street Journal reports Kodak preparing to file for bankruptcy. Â Let us hope someone buys up the film business and makes it work. Supposedly that business is profitable, but the rest is not. Â You knew there was trouble when they were selling off the patents a few months back. I still don`t know how they got away with that as the patents were collateral for outstanding loans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Hi tobey bilek, Take a look here kodak bankruptcy. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted January 4, 2012 Share #2  Posted January 4, 2012 Wall Street Journal reports Kodak preparing to file for bankruptcy. Let us hope someone buys up the film business and makes it work. Supposedly that business is profitable, but the rest is not.  You knew there was trouble when they were selling off the patents a few months back. I still don`t know how they got away with that as the patents were collateral for outstanding loans.  I think one problem is that they have not been successful at selling their patents. This could be because of buyers worrying of shareholder suits from an impending bankruptcy. I am not sure if there is anyone interested in buying up the film business and I think they would have already sold it if they could get the right price. I would think that anyone interested would wait and see if they can get assets at very low prices under liquidation. (Which may or may not be in the cards.) Look at how stupid Bank of America was in buying Countrywide just before it went bankrupt.  I've been reading a lot about Kodak lately and there are various reports that the assets of the company are still pretty valuable. Yet everything is collapsing on them - their stock price, no ability to borrow money, bond ratings being lowered, NYSE de-listing letter, can't sell their patents. Etc.  Back in October, this analysis thought the stock was a bargain when the company's market cap was $200 million. He thought another company should have bought it. (I think Kodak has some kind of poison pill however.)  Kodak's Sell-Off Is Overdone - Seeking Alpha  Now the stock is down to $.47 and the market cap is only $127 million. So if the film business is still profitable and the patents are worth $1+ billion, what is going on and why has nobody bought the entire company by offering around $1.00 per share? Can't someone else figure out how to stop the bleeding? Or are the debts just too high to be overcome by this and bankruptcy is the only hope? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 4, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted January 4, 2012 Somebody will pick up Tri-X, I'm sure. Portra, Ektachome etc will be "Cheerio" by next Chrstmas. Â Kodak shares tumble on Chapter 11 report - Business - CBC News Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 4, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted January 4, 2012 Portra, Ektachome etc will be "Cheerio" by next Chrstmas. Â I hope not but I've just ordered a modest amount of Portra (I wish I could afford more just after Christmas) to stick in the freezer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted January 4, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted January 4, 2012 Do not worry, Kodak will make film in The future and film production will not stop during capter 11. Â I hope they will find a solution. Some 19.000 pepople could loose a job. Â I will support purchasing some more film. E100G and T-Max 100 Â Fgcm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 4, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted January 4, 2012 This time next year, "somebody" will be making "Kodak" film. I'm not convinced it will be "Kodak" and I doubt whether it will be colour film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted January 5, 2012 Share #7  Posted January 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Colour film is still required for movies, so it may remain available for some time. B&W will survive as an artistic niche medium into the future. A great pity that it has come to this, especially for the employees.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted January 5, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Andy, what makes you think Kodak colour negative film may be gone in less than a year, while B/W film would continue to be produced, albeit by another company who took this part from Kodak? Recently I stocked up a bit on Plus-X, but I use Portra 160 much more often... First of all we don't know if Kodak really and completely goes bankrupt. But if that happens, would it not be more likely if another company would by all of the film production? Lex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim123 Posted January 5, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Another example of how management plundered the company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 5, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Bankruptcy is not necessarily synonymous with liquidation, depending in part on which Chapter of the Bankruptcy Code is used and the specific set of circumstances. Only insiders are likely to have enough info on Kodak to predict outcomes, and maybe not even them at this stage. Some companies emerge stronger from the process, albeit with a different structure and business plan; I suspect though that any 'rosy' scenario faded along with Kodachrome. We'll have to wait and see. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share #11 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Chapter 11 I heard at dinner news. Â I think that is just creditor protection. Â B&W film is very small part of film production. Â Kodak machines are designed for high production volume. The current formulations can not be made on the old type of coaters in Europe, Efke, Foma etc. No idea about Ilford machinery. I wonder if they would consider color, but I think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 5, 2012 Share #12 Â Posted January 5, 2012 As mentioned, the likelihood is this will be Chapter 11 (if it comes to pass). Kodak stays in business, but a lot of its contractual obligations, that it can no longer fulfill as a much smaller company, get nullified. Â Current stock value drops to zero, shareholders(owners) get zip, creditors get "haircuts" of some percentage (just as may happen to banks holding Greek debt), Kodak can welch on commitments to pensions and retirement healthcare. Some big movie studios may get their contracts for film rewritten by the bankruptcy court - and some silver suppliers may get their contracts rewritten, too. Â What happens to the film division also ends up in the hands of the court. As a profit center (if it is) it may stay with Kodak as their "sole source of support" to pay the bills. Or it may get sold. Or it may shut down, with the brand names and formulas licensed or sold off. Depends on what the court decides provides the best overall outcome for all the parties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted January 5, 2012 Share #13 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Kodak on the brink. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 5, 2012 Share #14  Posted January 5, 2012 Colour film is still required for movies, so it may remain available for some time  Digital is making incresing inroads into the film market, both at the production and distribution ends. Even if film continues to be used for some movies - and as I say that is in decline - it is being replaced by digital in the distribution chain. The benefits for the distributor or obvious. A new multiplex cinema opened near me, no film there at all, it's all digital,  No the switch over to digital is not going to happen overnight, and it may not ever achieve 100% of the market, but the important thing is that ovie film use is in decline, and that is likely to continue. Not a very good market to be in.  As has been mentioned, is Kodak's consumer film suitable for smaller scale manufacture? I've no idea. Black and white film will probably prevail over colour because there will always be enthusiasts who want to use it - that's probably been it's main market for the last 10 years at least (when was B&W last a mainstream product?). Colour on the other hand was much more mainstream, and that market has largely gone digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted January 5, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Kodak machines are designed for high production volume. Â The company's mindset is designed for high production, the machines have been re-tooled for virtually any size of coating, but generally run best with the near mile long, 50" wide master roll concept. Â In June of 2009, I was under NDA when I got to see the primary coating facility and it's main machine, a very robotic and slick affair. Â This could be a smaller operation if need be, but who really knows what will happen at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 5, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Somebody will pick up Tri-X, I'm sure. Portra, Ektachome etc will be "Cheerio" by next Chrstmas. Â Andy - forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this viewpoint based solely on your personal preferences? Any evidence to back it up? Color - and particularly the various flavors of Portra - are most of what I see being used by the professionals I know or see still using film. Particularly true in the wedding business. Â The truly excellent pro lab I use here in Stockholm (Teamframkallning) has only recently included b&w processing in his business. Otherwise he always seems to be handling large consignments of 120 Portra whenever I visit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 5, 2012 Share #17 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe, but I doubt that the few wedding photographers that still use film are a big enough market for someone to pick up from Kodak. Certainly, the "mum and dad and granny" market for colour film has disappeared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 5, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Certainly, the "mum and dad and granny" market for colour film has disappeared. Â That's true but it has also been true for B&W film since the 1960s. I guess the issue is that colour film is presumably more complicated to manufacture and may require large volumes (larger than a niche market can provide) to be cost effective. I (like most people) really don't know the economics but I think (hope:)) you are being unnecessarily pessimistic to think Kodak colour film will be gone within a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonheim Posted January 5, 2012 Share #19  Posted January 5, 2012 Wall Street Journal reports Kodak preparing to file for bankruptcy. Let us hope someone buys up the film business and makes it work. Supposedly that business is profitable, but the rest is not.  The "good news" is that film is not dead should Kodak or its film division not survive. There is still Ilford and others. I know little of how they are doing, but hopefully film photography is big enough for one or two manufacturers to survive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 5, 2012 Share #20 Â Posted January 5, 2012 Maybe, but I doubt that the few wedding photographers that still use film are a big enough market for someone to pick up from Kodak. Certainly, the "mum and dad and granny" market for colour film has disappeared. Â I don't think 'mum and dad and granny' were using Portra pro film, to be honest. And the pro color division has been increasing profits recently (according to an earlier thread). Â Incidentally, I'm not sure where that optimistic thread went - naturally it died from lack of interest after a few short posts. I predict this one will have legs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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