35mm Summilux pre-asph with M9

[Deliberate1]

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Friends, I am looking at 35mm options and am particularly intrigued by the 35mm Summilux pre-asph. I have learned that there are two versions - one made in Canada and the other, later version made in Germany. I have also read that the later version may be more flare resistant, but that it may have to be modified to focus to infinity with the M9. If so, is that true, and does that apply to the Canadian version as well. Any other observations between these two lenses or just general advice about this lens would be appreciated.

David

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[lars_bergquist]

That lens is a Genuine Dog (a shaggy one, with fleas). It is ok when stopped down to f:4 or so, but wide open, it is soft and flarey. Some people like that of course; there's no accounting for taste. But I don't share it.

 

The old man from the Anastigmatic Age

[Knorp]

That lens is a Genuine Dog (a shaggy one, with fleas). It is ok when stopped down to f:4 or so, but wide open, it is soft and flarey. Some people like that of course; there's no accounting for taste. But I don't share it.

 

Agreed and although it's very light and amazingly tiny and its performance stopped down is very acceptable, wide open performance is a jaw-dropping experience.

High lights turn into "pretty" butterflies and everything bright and/or shiny develops a nasty "glow". But then you might like it.

I've got a Canadian version that works fine on my M9(-P).

 

I'd say: think it over while you can !

 

Kind regards.

[Penzes]

Hi Bart, I have also a Canadian version, but this one is not able to focus on the M9 to infinity. I would like to let the lens modified. Do you know, where yours was done, or did yours worked on the M9 without modification?

 

What is the first 3-4 digit of your serial number?

[jaapv]

Send it to Will van Manen in Zoetermeer.

[Knorp]

Hi Bart, I have also a Canadian version, but this one is not able to focus on the M9 to infinity. I would like to let the lens modified. Do you know, where yours was done, or did yours worked on the M9 without modification?

 

What is the first 3-4 digit of your serial number?

 

Hi there István,

 

the lens' serial number starts with 3281xxx and the lens has not been modified, AFAIK.

 

Oh, let me add that with any subject not bright and/or shiny wide open performance is really not too bad.

Of course there's the softness Lars mentioned previously.

 

Vrolijk Kerstfeest !

[Deliberate1]

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That lens is a Genuine Dog (a shaggy one, with fleas).

 

 

I happen to have two old dogs that I dearly love, and I am the one with fleas:D

 

This is a bit of a tough choice. If I do not get the Lux it will be a 35mm cron ASPH for $500-600 more. I know it is the "golden child" with no fleas, etc. No relevant distortion. No focus shift. No flare issues. No modification for focusing. Sharp without brutality. So why am I even considering the Lux? Some of the images I have seen of people, shot wide open are magic.

I have read that the "dreaminess" at f1.4 is lost by f2, and that max sharpness with this lens is f8. And at that focal length it is very sharp indeed. Confirm?

By the way, what does "focal shift" mean - a phenomenon I have read that happens between f1.4 and f2. Does that simply mean the the image goes out focus when switching between these two focal lengths, and if so, does that happen whether going from f1.4 to f2 or back? My "focus shift" problem is trying to decide between these two lens options. Obliged.

David

Edited December 25, 2011 by Deliberate1

[archi4]

Bart,

I had one on my M8 some time ago - I believe nr. 36xxxxx if I remember- which was very good at f2 and 2.8.

I foolishly sold it to a member here in the netherlands some years ago.

I just looked at some pictures I took with it, and was surprised at the quality.

[jaapv]

I happen to have two old dogs that I dearly love, and I am the one with fleas:D

 

This is a bit of a tough choice. If I do not get the Lux it will be a 35mm cron ASPH for $500-600 more. I know it is the "golden child" with no fleas, etc. No relevant distortion. No focus shift. No flare issues. No modification for focusing. Sharp without brutality. So why am I even considering the Lux? Some of the images I have seen of people, shot wide open are magic.

I have read that the "dreaminess" at f1.4 is lost by f2, and that max sharpness with this lens is f8. And at that focal length it is very sharp indeed. Confirm?

By the way, what does "focal shift" mean - a phenomenon I have read that happens between f1.4 and f2. Does that simply mean the the image goes out focus when switching between these two focal lengths, and if so, does that happen whether going from f1.4 to f2 or back? My "focus shift" problem is trying to decide between these two lens options. Obliged.

David

 

Focus shift means that the plane of focus umm- shifts, as you stop the lens down, so it may be in focus @ 1.4 and without changing the distance setting it will be out of focus @ 4.0

[Deliberate1]

Focus shift means that the plane of focus umm- shifts, as you stop the lens down, so it may be in focus @ 1.4 and without changing the distance setting it will be out of focus @ 4.0

 

To address this, do you pick the f stop first and then focus, rather than vice versa?

I have read that the Summilux-M and Summilux ASPH v. 1 share this phenomenon - but is the ASPH less so and is it at wider stops? Thanks.

David

Edited December 25, 2011 by Deliberate1

[TomB_tx]

To address this, do you pick the f stop first and then focus, rather than vice versa?

I have read that the Summilux and Summilux ASPH v. 1 share this phenomenon - but is the ASPH less so and is it at wider stops? Thanks.

David

The rangefinder has no idea what f-stop you are using, so will focus the same regardless of lens opening. You can compensate, once you learn how much a lens shifts, by focusing for the slight double-image needed to focus at the point you want. It really isn't hard if you use the lens a lot, but hard to remember if you switch lenses a lot.

If you use the lens on non-Leica that focuses by live-view, you can focus after setting fstop and see some difference.

[Deliberate1]

The rangefinder has no idea what f-stop you are using, so will focus the same regardless of lens opening. You can compensate, once you learn how much a lens shifts, by focusing for the slight double-image needed to focus at the point you want. It really isn't hard if you use the lens a lot, but hard to remember if you switch lenses a lot.

If you use the lens on non-Leica that focuses by live-view, you can focus after setting fstop and see some difference.

 

Tom, I get it. I was still thinking in ttl focusing terms.

I assume that as you stop down, the phenomenon would be overcome by greater DOF.

Thanks

David

Edited December 25, 2011 by Deliberate1

[TomB_tx]

To some extent the increasing DOF helps, but in the middle stops it still helps to nudge the focus a bit for best sharpness at the subject. I don't have the 'lux, but use a Voigtlander 35 f1.4 "classic" that has a similar design and size. I generally use it at f2.0, where there isn't enough shift to affect it, but has reduced fall-off and good sharpness. (Favorable compared to my 69 35 Summicron.) At f4-5.6 I do compensate focus.

[russell]

I don't have focus shift problems with my 35mm pre-asph summilux. I suspect that one reason could be that the minimum focus distance is constrained at 0.9 meters so it's less noticeable.

Also of all my lenses this one produces the images that gets the most comments from non-techinical (i.e. non gear heads) people. The Noctilux also gets comments but those images are more gimmick-y.

The flare people complain about is real but cleans up quite a bit already even at f2. It's less of a problem on the digital, as opposed to a film, M body since you can preview/chimp the image to make sure flare doesn't ruin the picture.

One downside is that you cannot 6-bit code it. I often forget to manually reset the lens selection.

I had mine adjusted in Solms to fit the digital body.

 

Bottom line is that if had to keep only one lens it might be this one.

[menos I M6]

I can't share the critic on the 35 Lux pre ASPH.

In fact, although, I don't have mine for long, I really like it.

It is not my only fast 35mm, I have actually about 10 different 35mm, but it surely is among my three most liked lenses.

 

It is not easy to use though, with it's window of safe operation quite limited - you have to learn about that.

It does show bad flare in certain circumstances and it does show heavy coma, especially wide open.

The originally supplied lens hood is best kept at home in safe storage (as of bad performance and value), while a modified Summicron, rectangular plastic hood gives a lot better performance, if one likes, to use a lens hood for this lens.

I use mine so far without hood, as I enjoy especially it's extremely small form factor and like the lower overall contrast for pushed B&W film in night shooting.

 

What it does best though is, to create a certain look, some people truly love (myself included).

 

Untitled by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

 

Untitled by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

 

Untitled by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

 

Untitled by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

 

All shots are wide open on M9.

 

@ Istvan - certain samples of early Canadian made version II 35mm Summilux do have a slightly too deep rear element shroud, which can collide with a obstruction within the lightbox of the M8,M8.2 and M9.

 

These lenses have to be modified (the shroud has to be removed and machined/ ground), to clear the digital M, when focussing to infinity.

The rear element shroud is an aluminum lathe+milling part, that has been coated with antireflective paint. Any Leica qualified service technician can disassemble the lens and modify the shroud for you.

 

I have already modified a few of these older Canadian lenses, including my own sample.

 

If I want really sharp details and no visible coma + high contrast and a much more neutral out of focus rendering, I grab the 35 Lux ASPH - each lens has a special purpose.

[Penzes]

Thanks for the answers to my question. I was looking for a serial number range or a kind of identification for lenses, which would work on the M9. I'm not sure, should I let it modify, or try to by an other one with the "right" back element.

[russell]

I'm not sure there is a serial number range you could rely on. Mine was from the mid 1980s and needed modification.

[menos I M6]

Thanks for the answers to my question. I was looking for a serial number range or a kind of identification for lenses, which would work on the M9. I'm not sure, should I let it modify, or try to by an other one with the "right" back element.

 

Istvan, the modification is minor and very easy to do with the correct tools and knowledge to do so.

It should therefore not cost much money.

 

Based on this, I would primarily act after the purchase cost and overall condition of the lens and rather have a beautiful sample modified, than finding a less nice one later on.

 

I did the same with mine. I actually bought it after looking for one for years, when this auction came up with a 35 Lux, made in my year of birth and even resembling my birthdate within its serial no. There was no way, I would have sold it and looked for another one.

I modified it (machining of rear element shroud and repainting of machined surface).

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Hallo,

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[reinerv]

I have one from 1974 (2722xxx) and sent it for modification to Leica/Solms beginning of this year. At infinity the protection ring for the back lense was hitting against the inner bajonet.

Including shipping, tax, and revision Leica charged me 10€ per mm focal length. I sold my Summicron ASPH afterwards.

[Alnitak]

This will no doubt be considered sacrilege by many here, but if you want the dreamy look and flare of the Summilux pre-ASPH, in a small lens package, save your money and buy the Cosina-Voigtlander 35/1.4 Nokton. It's designed to match the old pre-ASPH 'Lux and it does so very well at a fraction of the price. For those who love lower contrast and flare, CV makes a single-coated version. I find the price of the CV to be more palatable given the flaws in optical design (or rather, the limitations of its time of manufacture).

 

Jeff