Allen in Montreal Posted December 17, 2011 Share #41 Posted December 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I must disagree. There is no fairness to Kodak management, was he not voted the WORST CEO in America (CNBC). They have not adapted to the modern times at all, they just slash and slash with no logic or input. They introduce the Tmax 400, maybe the greatest film ever, and then cut packaging to 10 sheet boxes (8x10) and jack up the price, and then cut it to special order. Why, so they get the 15k for a special order upfront and have no risk. When I ask the Canadian distributor for 8x10 TXP, she does not know what it is, I am asked to find a product number for HER. I complain to Kodak, they REFUSE to break the 60 year old distrubution chain model which hurts them more than helps them. The CEO drives around in a Bentley as he slowly kills the company. Fire him and adapt to today's market place, or die. They seem to have chossen to die, slowly. There is no fairness for this Kodak management team. Fire them! Sorry, but I take their flippent bad management of one of the great America companies as a complete insult. In fairness to the Kodak management what is causing the choices to contract - unlike yourself I dont think anyone is killing off film as a generic choice - is the market. Film is selling in far smaller numbers than a decade ago. I imagine many 10x8 users have migrated to MF digital, hence the reason you can no longer buy the film you mentioned off the shelf. This rationalisation has been in progress for several years - how easy is it to buy 220 film for example? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Hi Allen in Montreal, Take a look here Tired of Hearing "Film is Dead"? Well, So Are We.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tomasis7 Posted December 17, 2011 Share #42 Posted December 17, 2011 I personally would worry much less when some small company acquire film division from Kodak and continue develop its business model for nische market! Similarly to sensor company that was sold. I see that it is not easy to design and build a new high iso film from scratch so I have hope that machines will not go wasted when Kodak decides to give up. Other films in market dont excite me except hp5 and Trix. I see that prices have increased for some films, almost double than 2 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MX5Bob Posted December 18, 2011 Share #43 Posted December 18, 2011 Kodak has been a poorly managed company for nearly two decades. They made a foray into the copy machine business that was a disaster because Canon and others made better machines for less money. They helped pioneer digital and then lost their way. I'd like think they could still play a dominate role in motion picture production, but they're swimming against the tide. Arriflex's Alexa could easily overtake a lot of film shoots. Commercials are being shot in HD with Canon 1D and 5D cameras. Film's place is in the hands of certain professionals and serious amateurs. That's not a bad place. Once upon a time, 35mm wasn't a consumer format until a lot of cheap, plastic point-and-sheet cameras came out in the early '90s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted December 18, 2011 Share #44 Posted December 18, 2011 Kodak has been a poorly managed company for nearly two decades.. Film's place is in the hands of certain professionals and serious amateurs. That's not a bad place. Once upon a time, 35mm wasn't a consumer format until a lot of cheap, plastic point-and-sheet cameras came out in the early '90s. Agreed. Kodak has undeniably been plagued by extremely poor management for decades. If Kodak is to survive - even in its current form, which is a battered and weakened shell of its former self - heads must roll at the very top levels. It's time for some bloodletting in the board room. Hell, it was time for some bloodletting in Kodak's board room 20 years ago. The cancer must be cut out, if the patient wants to live. I just hope to see Kodak and its many excellent silver based products survive. JMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen in Montreal Posted December 18, 2011 Share #45 Posted December 18, 2011 Kodak has been a poorly managed company for nearly two decades....... They helped pioneer digital and then lost their way......... Film's place is in the hands of certain professionals and serious amateurs. That's not a bad place........... +2 All too often they came out first out of the gate, and then sat on their duff! Film is a niche market item, and instead of playing to that and adapting, they sit on their duff once again and use the same old network and same old ideas. Cut the network crap, direct market web orders through Rochester. They could have their cake and eat too, if they actually learned how jump thru a new hoop, one that is newer than about 1970! Ilford must be loving this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted December 18, 2011 Share #46 Posted December 18, 2011 I'm seeing more and more major movies being shot with Red cameras, like Pirates of the Carribean. Indie filmmakers are buying up Canon DSLR's in droves. Canon has entered the market with its own cinema camera, with either EF mount or PL mount. I was talking to an indie filmmaker who said that the cost to rent a Red Epic for his intended shooting time was the same that it would cost him to shoot with film, so he's going with the Epic due to the flexibility and image quality. I wish Kodak all the success that they can get, because it benefits no one when a industry giant like this goes down. I love many of Kodak's films and I really ought to shoot more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 18, 2011 Share #47 Posted December 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Cut the network crap, direct market web orders through Rochester Not sure that making customers wait a few days when they want some film is a good idea. One of the reasons that Kodachrome wasn't popular was because people weren't prepared to wait the extra time for processing compared to E6. It might work for smaller companies, or if dealers are prepared to go along with it, in parallel to the normal distribution channels, but as the only source of Kodak film I see it as another step along the path leading to the demise of Kodak as a film supplier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 18, 2011 Share #48 Posted December 18, 2011 Did anyone but me know a time when we were very young and 35mm film was precious possibly due to our financial situation? When we would roll 12 exposure rolls, shoot from a steady platform and process as if it were our last pictures? Digital did not exist. Well, I am beginning to foster those days again, but with larger film because digital does exist to satiate the compelling "shoot till lucky'' thing (which frankly I can't seem to get back because because I am no longer a pro on assignment). -- Pico - 4:54 AM, sleepless and idly wondering what I can get me mate for Christmas except for another Great Pyrenees puppy - that's what she would like. So would I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 18, 2011 Share #49 Posted December 18, 2011 Hello pico, That is interesting because I have always thought 36 exposures was a lot. I prefer film in 12 exposure cartridges, except sometime. When I have the opportunity I like to photograph as a person would w/ a Kardan B on a Studex. The different mind set gives you a different picture. This, by the way is what I see as an advantage of digital: You can make 1 or 2 exposures, Studex & all, & then print them. No waiting. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen in Montreal Posted December 18, 2011 Share #50 Posted December 18, 2011 Did anyone but me know a time when we were very young and 35mm film was precious possibly due to our financial situation? When we would roll 12 exposure rolls, shoot from a steady platform and process as if it were our last pictures? Digital did not exist. Well, I am beginning to foster those days again, but with larger film because digital does exist to satiate the compelling "shoot till lucky'' thing (which frankly I can't seem to get back because because I am no longer a pro on assignment). -- Pico - 4:54 AM, sleepless and idly wondering what I can get me mate for Christmas except for another Great Pyrenees puppy - that's what she would like. So would I. I recall those days When I was in high school, shooting for the local weekly paper, I had no choice but to roll film. "shoot till lucky'' I like that phrase, may I borrow it on occasion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen in Montreal Posted December 18, 2011 Share #51 Posted December 18, 2011 I agree that some clients may be upset, but can more be upset using that system than the current? I have my doubts. I stock as much as 1000 sheets of film at sometimes, in 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10. I have no choice, the supply chain is that unreliable, When I bought the last 2 boxes of 8x10 TXP in Canada, the distributor did not even know what it was, she had no product code, I had to get the product code for her. Tell me that distributor helped Kodak move the goods! They sat on their rear and waited for the phone to ring. And when it rang, they made it difficult. Ilford has made it easy, they process any order no matter how small (i box at a time). Kodak should have long since offered web based direct sales for 5x7, 810 and specialized films that retail shops are less interested in at very least. They have not helped themselves at all! Not sure that making customers wait a few days when they want some film is a good idea. One of the reasons that Kodachrome wasn't popular was because people weren't prepared to wait the extra time for processing compared to E6. It might work for smaller companies, or if dealers are prepared to go along with it, in parallel to the normal distribution channels, but as the only source of Kodak film I see it as another step along the path leading to the demise of Kodak as a film supplier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 19, 2011 Share #52 Posted December 19, 2011 Kodak should have long since offered web based direct sales for 5x7, 810 and specialized films that retail shops are less interested in at very least. They have not helped themselves at all! I don't know why they do not do this. It seems sensible, so that might explain it! 4X5 and smaller film can be ordered directly. Why not contact the Kodak Store and ask? I see some b/w film is out of stock which makes me wonder if Kodak is using someone else for fulfillment and thus only wants to stock the film that sells in a higher volume. (You would think that Kodak could keep TriX 36 and TMax 100 35mm in stock.) Black & White Film Almost everyone in the world is probably in agreement that Kodak management has been poor for some time. However, what makes anyone think that even the best management today would make a difference in Kodak's long range future plans for film? (If Kodak even has a long range future.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted December 19, 2011 Share #53 Posted December 19, 2011 Didn't take long for a positive post about film to turn into doomsday again. Oh well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted December 19, 2011 Share #54 Posted December 19, 2011 Anyone notice that according to one of the U.S. business magazines, Kodak was listed as the 4th worst run U.S. company? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 19, 2011 Share #55 Posted December 19, 2011 Didn't take long for a positive post about film to turn into doomsday again. Oh well. i don't quite see what is positive about a desperate attempt to regain a lost market by introducing a film that is unsuitable for normal photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 19, 2011 Share #56 Posted December 19, 2011 Didn't take long for a positive post about film to turn into doomsday again. Oh well. What will probably be required for Kodak's film future to be "positive" as it affects Leica users is for them to announce it is selling the division to someone who can make a long term plan to keep it going for one or more niche markets. Do you really want to depend on the 4th worst run company in the US (if true) for your materials? Especially since there is a good chance that Kodak, as we know it, will not be around too much longer. I really do not take pleasure in any of this and you probably don't believe me. Kodak is fighting for its life - the stock is at about $.65 now. Down 20% today on word that Kyocera is suing them. Last week I had dinner with a former Kodak photographer who was recently let go. He is looking for work now. Do you think he had anything good to say about Kodak? I also had a long time association with Kodak and wished things had worked out much better for them. In the good times, I was hired by Kodak to do an ad shoot for one of their big customers and I did some film testing for them. I got support from Kodak while in school and sold a lot of Kodak products in my summer job. I tried to return the favors by being a loyal customer. A new movie film (and new photo paper) is nice but on their own do not reverse the trends in still or motion pictures. (Sorry, and I'll leave it at that.) They are not looking toward film to be their salvation even if there is a viable market for it and I don't think Kodak management is our friend anymore. So I hope they sell it off to some company that can see a plan for it and Kodak can survive or fail doing other things. We can bet there is still a future for some "readily available" 35mm film but it is hard to know about the market size for specialty or large format film which may become mostly a special order product. (Even now, 8x10 film is not listed in Kodak's own store.) Heck, there was a time that my local store used to stock 8x10 E6 color slide duplicating film that I used via my enlarger. And my local lab would process it for me in a couple of hours. I could buy 50 sheet boxes of 20x24 Kodak R (reversal print) paper in various surfaces and 5 gallon R Chemicals off the the shelf. Well, that store, lab, and others aren't even around any more. From the 50's through the 80's, my cousin owned a camera store in DC a block from the White House on Pennsylvania Ave. It stocked a full range of camera gear, darkroom, chemicals, etc. The store had a lot of customers for film and processing - lined up at lunchtime requiring 8 employees to take their processing orders. My cousin said that all of the profit was from film and processing sales and the rest was just window dressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen in Montreal Posted December 20, 2011 Share #57 Posted December 20, 2011 Alan, Pretty good round up! I am the 5th photographer in 3 generations, my daughter just made front page of the large daily paper here last week (albeit with digital but she shoots film with my old Canon A2). We were always Kodak. It pains me to see how they keep dropping the ball. Plus-X has been total cut in 35mm. T-400 and TXP has a very loyal following in 5x7 and 8x10. The special order move is just a desperate cash grab that will back fire, many will migrate to HP-5. A bulk order is about $16,000. Kodak can't bank roll a 16,000 run and direct web sale the film? Hog wash! Cut the CEO's chauffeur driven Bentley (how he has the balls to keep that perk while the company tanks is beyond me, he should be sacked just for keeping the car) and lay some emulsion and get the product up on the web site for sale before Ilford has ALL your business. Kodak_Announcement-1.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 20, 2011 Share #58 Posted December 20, 2011 I am the 5th photographer in 3 generations Good for you and I hope it continues. I don't know how large your operation is but I remember reading in International PhotoTechnik many years ago about a large commercial production studio in Germany. Agfa would supply one emulsion for them in all the sizes they needed and stock their fridge with enough material for a year, at which time they'd take back the leftovers and give them a new supply. This way they could have color consistency across all the formats that they shot. That's an extreme example of how companies used to treat some commercial shooters and now just getting the film you want seems to be a challenge to you. Your family's operation is probably typical of the photography studios that previously had a lot of support from Kodak's reps. I am sorry if I pissed off plasticman or anyone else, but I too am irritated and seeing Kodak's stock drop 20% today has pretty much made me give up all hope for them. They have no choice but to pare to the bone (except maybe the Bentley and other perks) and take any action possible to try to keep the company going. I doubt if keeping 8x10 film shooters happy is a priority to them now and they probably can't afford the cost to do that if they wanted. I guess a miracle could happen and things will improve, but I wouldn't bet on it. Don't lose any sleep over Perez... http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2011/10/21/struggling-kodak-had-to-pay-for-ceos-vacations-in-spain/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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