M8 observations

[Riley]

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yeah I use manual too if I need to do anything moderately difficult with flash

its just easier to do it than trying to get your head around the control aspects sometimes

in that way TTL isnt exactly a success

[AlanG]

I know there is the tendency to say this converter or this camera produces "better" colors, or is too red, or whatever.

 

But have many of you explored C-1's color editor? (It's on the menu bar under "Work Flow.") This allows you to fine tune any of the camera profiles. You can select various colors of an image and adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color. Plus you can do global adjustments too. I think it would be pretty easy to get C-1 to match ACR or anything else.

[leicamr]

Guy,

 

Nice pictures. For the past three years I have been doing wedding work for a photographer using his Nikon gear with zoom lenses. This year I have called it quites with this gear as I am wanting to do my wedding work with an M8 and have been considering buying a tri Elmar (28, 35 50), but I notice that you state that you have 7 lenses in your kit. What are all the focal lengths that you are using? I have lenses from 24mm up to 135mm but have thought of using the Tri Elmar due to my recent zoom lens working practice. I guess that maybe you have a wide angle on one body and something longer on the other.

 

I do also have an R8/DMR with the 28 - 90 zoom which I am also considering for weddings. Would you ever use a DMR and M8 on the same job? How well do the images 'mix' from both camera systems?

 

Regards Mark

[eronald]

I know there is the tendency to say this converter or this camera produces "better" colors, or is too red, or whatever.

 

But have many of you explored C-1's color editor? (It's on the menu bar under "Work Flow.") This allows you to fine tune any of the camera profiles. You can select various colors of an image and adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color. Plus you can do global adjustments too. I think it would be pretty easy to get C-1 to match ACR or anything else.

 

Alan, thank you for pointing out this interesting piece of information. It's so easy to do, and we missed it !

 

Edmund

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I know there is the tendency to say this converter or this camera produces "better" colors, or is too red, or whatever.

 

But have many of you explored C-1's color editor? (It's on the menu bar under "Work Flow.") This allows you to fine tune any of the camera profiles. You can select various colors of an image and adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color. Plus you can do global adjustments too. I think it would be pretty easy to get C-1 to match ACR or anything else.

 

Yes Alan exactly right and what i want right now is the Holy Grail make a quick WB and move on. I know I know but i can wish for that too. C1 does a great job and i like the flow better than anything else and really if i did a complete switch i may go to Lightroom or Aperture when supported just for the cataloging alone. i am a mess here with all these drives. Nightmare to find stuff and it IS MY FAULT and actually need to buy 2 more externals thinking G raid maybe anyway i want to stick with C1 becuase it if very easy for me to work in. The DMR for example is just killer in C1 a WB and next please , it really is that good. i want the M8 to get there too and it will and i do like Edmunds latest stuff too. I don't have the profiling gear so i have to depend on others here like many of us for the profiles unil C1 comes back on board with something for the IR filters , i just never take the filters off for anything.

[eronald]

I know there is the tendency to say this converter or this camera produces "better" colors, or is too red, or whatever.

 

But have many of you explored C-1's color editor? (It's on the menu bar under "Work Flow.") This allows you to fine tune any of the camera profiles. You can select various colors of an image and adjust the hue, saturation, and lightness of each color. Plus you can do global adjustments too. I think it would be pretty easy to get C-1 to match ACR or anything else.

 

Alan, thank you for pointing out this interesting piece of information. It's so easy to do, and we missed it !

 

Actually the C1 editor is pretty nifty, everybody should have a go at it, if only ot know what can and what can't be done easily. I find it's nice for brutal hacks for special effects, but not so good for the subtle skin-tone issues we are dealing with here.

 

Edmund

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Guy,

 

Nice pictures. For the past three years I have been doing wedding work for a photographer using his Nikon gear with zoom lenses. This year I have called it quites with this gear as I am wanting to do my wedding work with an M8 and have been considering buying a tri Elmar (28, 35 50), but I notice that you state that you have 7 lenses in your kit. What are all the focal lengths that you are using? I have lenses from 24mm up to 135mm but have thought of using the Tri Elmar due to my recent zoom lens working practice. I guess that maybe you have a wide angle on one body and something longer on the other.

 

I do also have an R8/DMR with the 28 - 90 zoom which I am also considering for weddings. Would you ever use a DMR and M8 on the same job? How well do the images 'mix' from both camera systems?

 

Regards Mark

 

Mark I have the CV 15mm ,21,28 f2,35 lux, 50 lux, 75 lux and 90 apo. yes i have maybe more than my lions share but i actually used everyone doing that wedding. The 28 and 50 got a lot of work and the 75mm. Now the DMR and the 28-90 is a excellent combo and i am buying a 28-90 myself since i sold some DMR stuff. But yes using them together is a great idea and the files are very similar in many ways so having both systems is actually what i have.I just have been just lazy lately and leave the DMR home and I feel comfortable now with 2 M8's to do a chunk of my work but the DMR is here for when it is needed and i still have that love affair for it but the poor thing is lonely right now

[Eoin]

Sorry I'm a little late to the party, Guy as requested, my take on the bride through Aperture.

Just a slight tweak on the exposure, saturation and contrast. Also a little highlight and shadow with sharpen and edge sharpen.

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[leicamr]

Hi Guy,

 

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated as always. I have also been looking for a secondahand 21 f2.8 ASPH, but a Leica dealer has recommended a Zeiss equivalent. He claims it is better and of course much cheaper! But I see you use the 21 ASPH and not a Zeiss solution.

 

Mark

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes Eoin thanks for this , it looks pretty darn nice and thanks for your hard work on doing the hack to see the M8 files, great work. I am going to wait just a little longer to see what shakes out in the next month after PMA show but i plan on attending and going to visit all the raw developers booths and see what they are doing. i will be all over Apple's butt on the M8 and DMR i promise you that. LOL

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hi Guy,

 

Thanks for that information. Much appreciated as always. I have also been looking for a secondahand 21 f2.8 ASPH, but a Leica dealer has recommended a Zeiss equivalent. He claims it is better and of course much cheaper! But I see you use the 21 ASPH and not a Zeiss solution.

 

Mark

 

I had that Zeiss and i do regret selling it too, it sure was nice. I would read some reviews on the 2 of them just to see what may work better. i know Sean has reviewed them. I hated the hood though on the Zeiss. BTW this is one lens you certainly want coded someway or another. as you can see in that dance shot the cyan cast

[Eoin]

It's hardly my hack, it's well documented on the net on how to get the D-Lux-3 and LX2 to work by editing the raw.plist. I just applied it to the M8 and found the best existing profile.

It's nice to be able to do something small in thanks for all the fantastic information I have received from everyone here including you Guy in no small way.

 

It would be nice to have some pressure put on Apple to support BOTH the DMR and M8, Like you I was finding red skin tones a little annoying in C1 and with flash and IR/Cuts in place the results were like garden gnomes for want of a better word, I had to forget about flash and just use whatever light was there. But now I'm happy to have my image management and workflow back under 1 application.

[LJL]

It would be nice to have some pressure put on Apple to support BOTH the DMR and M8, Like you I was finding red skin tones a little annoying in C1 and with flash and IR/Cuts in place the results were like garden gnomes for want of a better word, I had to forget about flash and just use whatever light was there. But now I'm happy to have my image management and workflow back under 1 application.

 

Eoin,

I have made it at least a weekly thing to fire off a note to Apple about Aperutre's lack of support of professional Leica cameras. I initially only mentioned the M8, but lately I have been including the DMR as yet another example of a camera they need to support. Not sure it is doing any good, but last time I spoke with some Apple folks, they seemed to know who I was, so not sure if that is good or bad at this point. LOL.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your efforts on the hack. The collective tries of many around here is what makes this place nice to visit, learn from and contribute when possible.

 

The Aperutre conversions take a bit more work right now, but I think they yield very nice results. One does need to boost saturation and contrast a bit more than the straight conversion, but that is very easy to do on a lot of shots, the Lift and Stamp makes that very easy to do.

 

My suggestion is to keep peppering Apple with requests, and provide Guy with any ammo he needs when confronting them at PMA. The professional apps group is usually pretty responsive, and at least they will take the information and try to respond. We are the user community for them as much as anybody else, so it is in their interest to support all professional level cameras, and then add as many prosumer cams as they can.

 

LJ

 

P.S. Forgot to mention.....I like your rendition of the bride from Guy's shoot. It seems to keep the skintones very natural looking and the OOF rolloff gets even smoother in this version....at least from what I can tell on these Web postings. Great work. And Guy, you have some really nice shots, despite your "I do not like shooting weddings" protest. I gave them up long, long ago. You have captured some very attractive more casual shots that really are flattering for the couple. Thanks for sharing your efforts and concerns.

[Cindy Flood]

Guy,

Thanks for sharing all of this with us.

My question is about white balance. How did you set the white balance at the wedding? I have been doing custom white balance and using the whi-bal cards, but sometimes when the action is fast-paced and the light is changing, it is a challenge.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

CHEAT. LOL

 

Seriously the portrait i used her white dress and just find a spot that is not blown out and also have to use your eyes too sometimes it goes out of whack but also if all else fails look for a good black to WB off of and some of these i did just that.

 

Cindy a good little exercise is to take your WB shot in C1 than go look for other things in the scene that match the WB card , this will give you some idea's on what to look for when the card is NOT present. takes a little time but worth the exercise

 

Now if you find yourself off a little I immeaditely look at my Color Temp and see if that is in the zone of the light like daylight 5600 and if it reads 5900 than i bring it down until it LOOKS right, trust your eyes too and BIG REASON to have a calibrated monitor . Here i use Eye One for the monitor.

[LJL]

Guy,

Thanks for sharing all of this with us.

My question is about white balance. How did you set the white balance at the wedding? I have been doing custom white balance and using the whi-bal cards, but sometimes when the action is fast-paced and the light is changing, it is a challenge.

 

Cindy,

If I may add to Guy's comment....cheating is really not cheating, but picking up things in the image scenes that will help you get a good WB. It is usually impractical to be shooting a WB card all the time at fast moving events like a wedding. If you have the opportunity beforehand, shoot a series of test shots in each of the various settings with your WhiBal card and then use them as references later in C1 or any other conversion app, as Guy suggests. Whenever I shoot an event, I usually arrive in advance to check the various locations where I will be shooting and to get reference readings and WB test shots. Then I have a library to fall back to later. If I have to add a new location, and do not have time to take a new test shot, I do "cheat" and get something from the image. (It is easy at weddings, as there is almost always white or some gray for balancing. Blacks are not as reliable, I have found.) I then record those approximate color temps and tint readings to apply to other similar images as starting points. Most of the time, they are pretty darn close and slight adjustments are rarely needed.

 

Good luck and enjoy your shooting.

 

LJ

[Cindy Flood]

Guy and LJ,

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate the help.

Cindy

[AlanG]

The DMR for example is just killer in C1 a WB and next please , it really is that good. i want the M8 to get there too and it will and i do like Edmunds latest stuff too. I don't have the profiling gear so i have to depend on others here like many of us for the profiles unil C1 comes back on board with something for the IR filters , i just never take the filters off for anything.

 

You don't need any special profiling gear. If I were you here is what I'd try:

 

Shoot a subject with flesh tones and a color checker with the M8 and the DMR. Repeat this under a few of your typical lighing situations. White balance and adjust the DMR image in C1. Then do the same with the M8 files in C1. If the M8 images don't match those shot with the DMR, use the C1 color editor to make your M8 images as close as possible to those from the DMR. Then save those settings as your new M8 profiles. This way, the starting point of images from each camera will be much closer.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Good advice Alan and i do need to do that with both sytems since the DMR if anything is just a touch warm but balance that than start working a M8 image to that and save that profile is a very good way to go