Where's the 21?

[lars_bergquist]

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I have been off-net for more than a week, travelling, so I may have missed something. But has absolutely nothing been heard about a possible delivery date of the 21mm Super-Elmar? The delay, and the deafening silence, do indicate to my mind that there is a serious mess-up, serious enough to demand a re-design of the mount (and consequently a new assembly procedure).

 

Not that I am holding my breath. But Leica's policy of corporate omertá is irritating, especially as the company can be pretty leaky at other times. Well-run companies have a well thought out policy of customer communication.

 

The old man from the Age of the Typewritten Handout

[250swb]

What I don't understand is why didn't Erwin Puts etc notice the problem when they tested it? One lens for the testers, and one for the masses ?

 

I can't remember where, but I did read that it will be 'announced' (again) in November.

 

Steve

[asmith]

Ffordes recently seemed to have a new one for sale.

Alwyn

[StephenPatterson]

Ffordes recently seemed to have a new one for sale.

Alwyn

 

That's good to see. Here in the US I asked about this lens at the Leica Akademie weekend 2 weeks ago and was told by the Leica rep that the lens would be available in November, so it looks like that might actually happen.

 

At the Akademie our guest photographer, Craig Semetko, had the 21 SEM, which he has been using since it's original release. He had only very positive comments (and some stunning images) from this lens.

 

It's hard to say why Semetko, Puts and others did not experience problems with this lens, but obviously Leica thought the problem serious enough for a full recall. As I understand from the Leica rep I spoke with this was not an adjustment to the lens, but rather required a completely new housing. Considering that I suppose six months isn't too bad. Of course you have to question how it was ever released in the first place.

[250swb]

Ffordes recently seemed to have a new one for sale.

Alwyn

 

All should have been returned to Leica.

 

Steve

[StephenPatterson]

Ffordes do list the 21 SEM as "New" and "Just In", so hopefully this is a signal that Solms is once again shipping this lens.

[UliWer]

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In the German forum someone reported it would be delivered in November, others were told by dealers that delivery was still uncertain, while other dealers had it on stock.

[algrove]

I asked Puts this same question last week and he seemed to know they are now starting to become available at dealers.

[lars_bergquist]

The question came up why not all specimens have problems. But in products like these, an intrinsical problem does not necessarily show up in all instances. If the problem is one of, say, cumulative tolerances – all is well when they subtract, but shit happens when they add up – then only some lenses will have trouble, though all do have the problem, which is in the design or in the assembly procedure.

 

I do not question that the Gnomes of Solms handle this mess-up in a technically competent way. What I question is their communication policy. When you stand on a dark and icy station platform waiting for a train that won't arrive, then bad will is seriously counteracted by being told when the damn train will arrive, or even, marginally, by being told why it won't arrive! Glum silence is always the worst alternative.

 

The old man from the Age of the M9 ...

[algrove]

The question came up why not all specimens have problems. But in products like these, an intrinsical problem does not necessarily show up in all instances. If the problem is one of, say, cumulative tolerances – all is well when they subtract, but shit happens when they add up – then only some lenses will have trouble, though all do have the problem, which is in the design or in the assembly procedure.

 

I do not question that the Gnomes of Solms handle this mess-up in a technically competent way. What I question is their communication policy. When you stand on a dark and icy station platform waiting for a train that won't arrive, then bad will is seriously counteracted by being told when the damn train will arrive, or even, marginally, by being told why it won't arrive! Glum silence is always the worst alternative.

 

The old man from the Age of the M9 ...

 

Agree, we are big boys and gals so tell us what and when and then we will know what's up.

[slacker]

i have one! it does exist! amazingly sharp at maximum aperture from corner to corner. virtually no CA - the only way I can get CA to show is against very fine branches 200 feet away against brilliantly white clouds when the light is f/3.4 at 1/4000s for iso 160. size wise small, light, about the size of the 28/2.0 without the metal hood. it basically has become my go to lens for travel/landscape photography.

[StephenPatterson]

Did you get it from a European dealer?

[250swb]

My Leica dealer says all the lenses had the problem, easy to turn the focus ring when off the camera, then the focus gets very stiff and even locks up when on a camera.

 

But he didn't say which camera, and from recent experience messing about with lens mounts/flanges on LTM lenses, and changing them for codable flanges on M lenses one thing stands out. The M9 is very unforgiving compared to a film M of a flange that distorts slightly, or is misaligned. A flange that slips easily onto an MP or M2 can be very stiff on an M9 and can lock the focus ring up. In a sense it could be the M9 that is the problem. Reviewers like Puts got their M9 from pre-production samples, and maybe Leica are still using pre-production cameras for their testing, so perhaps tolerance's were tightened on the M9 going into production? And these tolerances are too tight for the first batch of SEM, made and tested on more forgiving bayonet mounts?

 

Steve

[Keith (M)]

My Leica dealer says all the lenses had the problem, easy to turn the focus ring when off the camera, then the focus gets very stiff and even locks up when on a camera.

 

But he didn't say which camera, and from recent experience messing about with lens mounts/flanges on LTM lenses, and changing them for codable flanges on M lenses one thing stands out. The M9 is very unforgiving compared to a film M of a flange that distorts slightly, or is misaligned. A flange that slips easily onto an MP or M2 can be very stiff on an M9 and can lock the focus ring up. In a sense it could be the M9 that is the problem. Reviewers like Puts got their M9 from pre-production samples, and maybe Leica are still using pre-production cameras for their testing, so perhaps tolerance's were tightened on the M9 going into production? And these tolerances are too tight for the first batch of SEM, made and tested on more forgiving bayonet mounts?

 

Steve

 

You could be on the right track there, Steve. Fitting a lens on my M9 (new Nov '10) requires a very firm grip whereas fitting the same lens to my M7 (new Feb '11) needs little more that a gentle caress. These being the only Leicas I have ever owned, I was naturally concerned that there was a problem with the M7 but the dealer (Ffordes) said (typically) "they are all like that, Sir..." Given the tolerance requirements of a zero-depth sensor -v- those for film, I have gone along with that so far.

[algrove]

Just talked to a dealer who was at the NYC Photo Stuff show-don't remember the name of the show.

 

He said the Leica reps at the show said it is shipping even though he was promised his in October, but has not even seen the Leica invoice for the lens yet. Guess he gets the invoice before receiving the lens.

 

So he assumed November was the month when he would get the lens.