Gentleman Villain Posted October 12, 2011 Share #1 Posted October 12, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Are there certain shutter speeds when the shutter might create motion blur due to in-camera vibrations? For example, if the camera was mounted solidly on a tripod and the shutter was tripped with a cable release....At what shutter speeds might blurs start to show from vibrations to the camera body caused by the shutter itself? thnx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Hi Gentleman Villain, Take a look here MP/M7 shutter speed, exposure times & motion blur. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ronan Posted October 12, 2011 Share #2 Posted October 12, 2011 Good question, i have never mounted my M's on a tripod. Since it doesn't have a mirror, i would think any speed is ok (similar to SLR where you use mirror up function). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Villain Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted October 13, 2011 Since it doesn't have a mirror, i would think any speed is ok (similar to SLR where you use mirror up function). I'm hoping the same thing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christer Posted October 13, 2011 Share #4 Posted October 13, 2011 Barry Thornton, in his book Edge of Darkness, reported on this. There is a set of pictures on page 65 illustrating the effect at 8 different shutter speeds from 1/125 to 1 second and using the camera in four different ways, hand held, on light and heavy tripod, and on heavy tripod with mirror lock up. With the camera on a heavy tripod (with and without mirror lock up), the deterioration started at 1/2 second. Of course mirror lock up was "better" than with mirror moving, but deterioration started at the same shutter speed for both. With a light tripod deterioration started a 1 second, but from a very blurry base. Handheld deterioration started at 1/8 second; before that there was not much difference between shooting hand held and using a light tripod. At some shorter speeds handheld was better than using a light tripod! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted October 13, 2011 Share #5 Posted October 13, 2011 ...rangefinders don't have a mirror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 13, 2011 Share #6 Posted October 13, 2011 ...rangefinders don't have a mirror. Christer said 'with or without mirror lock up'. But it is my experience as well. Even on a solid tripod a 1/2 second to something like 1/4 second and shutter bounce can cause a slightly more blurred image. Less so with a cloth shutter going horizontally, moreso with a metal vertical shutter, like on the M9. In longer exposures the small blip of movement is masked by the overall length of the exposure. I mean, we are talking critical standards to observe it, but when you factor in a lighter tripod and maybe a less rigid head it can show up in any photo. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christer Posted October 14, 2011 Share #7 Posted October 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Steve: Some grandiose pictures on your site. Thanks for the inspiration! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 14, 2011 Share #8 Posted October 14, 2011 It would all depend upon the focal length, tripod head, how sturdy the tripod is, and if it is mounted on cement or soft carpet. With my Gitzo 1227, Leica ball head, mounted on something solid, I never got a blur. The type of cable release makes some consideration. Short ones are terrible, long stiff little better, 12" very flexible soft is the best. Another consideration is the actual speed set and how fast vibration dies. 1 sec with a quick die, and the vibrating time is only a small portion of the total exposure. If you have a sloppy set up and use 1/15, the camera might be vibrating the entire exposure. Buy a good stiff pod with a quality head and cable release and you will have no trouble. CF vibrate less than aluminum, way less and weigh less, and a little more than wood which is the best. All wood models are very large , awkward and heavy. Perfect for my view camera, almost unusable for 35 mm. You will never use it. Medium or large Leica ball heads are the best I have found. I bought my medium in 1965 and it works as new. A touch of the lock is all you need to make it solid. Camera does not move as the head is tightened. Cheapies move the camera and require force to lock down. You will hate them. Never extend the center column or you defeat 3 legs. The less joints in the legs, the better. Get one tall enough you need not bend over The models where you attach weight to center column help just a little. It is not a substitute for a solid pod. Stay away from cheap heads and tilt/pan heads engineered for movie cameras. The best release I have a Leica one I bought in 1985. 18", flexible, and a only one with a throw long enough the raise the mirror on a visoflex. No viso, buy the $3.00 model 12" long. This is the only place to save money. For long exposure, Cover lens, open shutter, uncover lens and start time, recover lens. A black card makes the best cover. You never get vibration. A cable with lock release is best for over 30 sec. More than you wanted to know, but those are the facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 14, 2011 Share #9 Posted October 14, 2011 It would all depend upon the focal length, tripod head, how sturdy the tripod is, and if it is mounted on cement or soft carpet. With my Gitzo 1227, Leica ball head, mounted on something solid, I never got a blur. The type of cable release makes some consideration. Short ones are terrible, long stiff little better, 12" very flexible soft is the best. Another consideration is the actual speed set and how fast vibration dies. 1 sec with a quick die, and the vibrating time is only a small portion of the total exposure. If you have a sloppy set up and use 1/15, the camera might be vibrating the entire exposure. Buy a good stiff pod with a quality head and cable release and you will have no trouble. CF vibrate less than aluminum, way less and weigh less, and a little more than wood which is the best. All wood models are very large , awkward and heavy. Perfect for my view camera, almost unusable for 35 mm. You will never use it. Never extend the center column or you defeat 3 legs. The less joints in the legs, the better. Get one tall enough you need not bend over The models where you attach weight to center column help just a little. It is not a substitute for a solid pod. Stay away from cheap heads and tilt/pan heads engineered for movie cameras. The best release I have a Leica one I bought in 1985. 18", flexible, and a only one with a throw long enough the raise the mirror on a visoflex. No viso, buy the $3.00 model 12" long. This is the only place to save money. For long exposure, Cover lens, open shutter, uncover lens and start time, recover lens. You never get vibration. A cable with lock release is best for over 30 sec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Villain Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted October 15, 2011 More than you wanted to know, but those are the facts. that's not too much at all...it's exactly the type of info and opinion that I like to read Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 23, 2011 Share #11 Posted October 23, 2011 I use a converted, all-wood surveyor's tripod and a Ries head for LF work. It is very heavy. The major problem outdoors is wind, regardless of camera. The Leica is certainly less susceptible to wind as an 8x10 that acts like a sail. It might look silly, but carrying an umbrella to block side wind from the camera can help. That's all I can add to Tobey's excellent experienced advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 24, 2011 Share #12 Posted October 24, 2011 Hello Everybody, Another thought: After you set up the camera on the solid tripod w/ large ball head & firmly attach it to something heavy which is stationary or otherwise tied down & you attach the cable release, cock the shutter, frame & focus, Visoflex - lock up mirror, it is important for you wait as long as it takes, sometimes more than a minute or 2, for the vibrations in the system to resolve themselves to "0". Then gently release the shutter w/ the cable release. If you need more than 1 picture you have to wait again after cocking the shutter whether or not you do all of the other things above. It makes a difference. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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