Leica M3 focusing distance

[sksaito]

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It was my understanding that the M3 focusing distance is 1m or perhaps a tad bit closer. I'm relatively new to photography and do not know the mechanical details of how a camera and not least of how a Leica M3 works. I thought the focusing distance was dictated by the lens and not the body. I tried a 50mm summicron and a 50mm summilux both on the M3. Although the focusing dial turned all the way to 0.7m, the actual focusing achieved on the viewfinder did not go past 0.9m or so. Is that how the M3 is supposed to function?

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[hoppyman]

Focus alignment depends on both the lens and its action against a spring loaded roller in the camera body.

 

It may be that your camera has a different range of movement to other M's. Whether or not the image is actually focused on the film plane, if you cannot align the rangefinder you are only guessing of course.

 

I don't remember this coming up when I shot with modern lenses on M3's but then I don't recall focusing inside a meter with them.

[iphoenix]

Although the focusing dial turned all the way to 0.7m, the actual focusing achieved on the viewfinder did not go past 0.9m or so. Is that how the M3 is supposed to function?

Yes; more modern lenses focus closer than the M3's rangefinder was designed to do. Early Elmars and Summicrons focussed to the same distance as the rangefinder. For close focussing the Summicron 50/F2 near (close) focus lens; which used a converter lens over the view/rangefinder (commonly called "specs"), was the way to go. If you come across a good one of these it is a superb lens. With it's specs, you have a lens you can use to SLR normal distances with any film M series cameras. (Can't comment on digital). David

[lars_bergquist]

There are two different factors here, the length of the lense's focusing helical dictating how close the lens itself can focus, and the working range of the camera's rangefinder. The M3 rangefinder went to one meter only. The M2, and all subsequent M cameras, has a completely redesigned finder/rangefinder assembly, which was necessitated by the change in finder magnification from 0.92X to 0.72x. This was when the rangefinder's close focusing limit was changed to 0.7m.

 

So your observation is correct. Early lenses made for the M3 had 1m for their close focusing limit (135mm lenses had, and have, 1.5m). One meter is still the limit for nearly all 90mm lenses. You can use any modern M lens on the M3, but the rangefinder stops working at 1m or a tad less. But there exist lenses for the M – some even made by Leica – that can scale-focus even closer than 0.7m. With these lenses, distances closer than 0.7mm are usually differently marked, and/or there is a 'bump' that you feel when you turn the helical beyond 0.7m.

 

What is not immediately obvious to people who are used to SLR cameras (or AF cameras, for that matter) is that with rangefinder cameras such as the M, focus is ascertained by a separate rangefinder mechanism which is mechanically coupled to the lens, where a sleeve or bar bears on the rangefinder lever you can see just inside the mount at 12 o'clock. With the exception of cameras or lenses with elementary guess-the-distance scale focusing, all other systems AF or manual, focus on the optical image itself projected by the lens on a matte focusing screen or on the sensor itself.

 

The old man from the Age of Guess-the-Distance

[sksaito]

Wow. Good stuff. Thanks all for the education.

[Guest user67033]

most leica 90mm lenses focus to 1m only. use a 90 with the M3 and have fun

[someonenameddavid]

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And if you have a collapsible summicron you can use a SOMKY adapter.... Or buy into the visoflex system (make sure that's ok with your wife/SO _first_)

 

David

[useless generation]

does anyone know if youxin ye can perform a focus adjustment so that my M3 can focus to 0.7m?

[lars_bergquist]

does anyone know if youxin ye can perform a focus adjustment so that my M3 can focus to 0.7m?

 

The rangefinder design prevents RF focusing closer than 1 meter. How far the lens in itself will focus is a different matter, as I have already made clear (I hope). Just see how far you can turn the focusing helical.

 

The old man from the Scale Focusing Age

[iphoenix]

does anyone know if youxin ye can perform a focus adjustment so that my M3 can focus to 0.7m?

It would cost too much to change the finder. You would probably have to buy another camera to get the parts. Get a Close Focus Summicron 50/2 with specs, so you can update your camera later. Get the lens, keep it and you will always have a superb lens which will focus down to approx. 18 inches.

[Twotone]

You can use the lens head from a rigid Summicron 50/2.0 with a SOMKY or SOMKY-M plus a UOORF adaptor.

 

I've two of these (SOMKY, SOMKY-M and one UOORF) in the makers boxes coming from America:D

 

http://www.collectcamera.com/products/object_details.php?object_ID=475&ocat_ID=53&lang=eng&pos=0&act=search&search=la475

[useless generation]

The rangefinder design prevents RF focusing closer than 1 meter. How far the lens in itself will focus is a different matter, as I have already made clear (I hope). Just see how far you can turn the focusing helical.

 

The old man from the Scale Focusing Age

 

Yea with my 50 Cron V4 it seems to focus down past 1m a slight bit, maybe to around 90ish. I can live with the 20cm just thought it might be an easy task as i need to send the M3 in for a CLA anyway.

 

thanks

[Rolo]

You can adjust the M3 rangefinder mechanism on most M3's to focus down to 0.7 metres without difficulty. I've done it and all you need is a pair of long nosed pliers.

 

The M3 has a curved stop lever that prevents the roller from following the lens beyond 1 metre.. Gently bending that lever will allow the roller to travel further and it can be bent to accommodate 0.7m. There's no risk involved for a pair of steady hands. Do it gently and in stages.

 

The procedure is described on the web by famous UK technician, Peter Grasafi, of CRR.

 

A technician will do it for you if your reluctant to do it. Use a soft cloth to avoid the pliers from touching the camera parts. Takes 5 minutes to do, but an hour to build the courage to do it.

 

Of course, the movement is controlled by the lens; it won't turn a 1m lens into a 0.7m lens. Only your dealer can do that.

 

Quote

"EXTENDING THE RANGE OF EARLIER M3 RANGEFINDERS : Not all M3 cameras can be adjusted to focus down to 0.7 metre . The early M3's just go to 1 meter . There is , on later M3's that only focus to 1 mtre , an extra lever in the throat of the camera that stops the roller arm coming out further . This can sometimes be , straightened slightly so that the roller arm comes out further allowing focusing below 1 mtre . The reason that Leitz did this was because below 1 mtre the rangefinder and parallax correction was not as accurate. Some of the early M3's did not have this extra 'stop' and , whatever you read on the internet about extending the range , this is not true for all M3 's . There were 3 different rangefinders for the first design ( double stroke ) M3 , and the problem with extending the range is that the moving objective ( the lens that moves when you focus the camera ) hits the inside of the top-plate before it reaches 0.7 mtre. There is a possibility with some M3's that the prisms can be removed and reset in a different position so that the lens will be able to focus below 1 mtre , but this requires that the rangefinder is heated to 200 degrees C to soften the cement and then loosen the prisms/beam-splitter so that it can be repositioned to extend the range . If you check your camera , and look in the throat where the rangefinder roller arm is attached you may see a small lever that acts as a stop and hits the centre eccentric screw post . You will see that this is bent slightly. If you are very careful you may be able to bend this lever so that it is a little straighter and thus allow the roller to come further out . You would have to be very careful , and use a long nosed pair of good quality pliers. Do not attempt to unscrew the roller arm because the span of the rangefinder is adjustable on an eccentric cam and unscrewing this will upset the calibration . Straightening the stop lever may give you a little more on the focus scale below 1 mtre but it normally will not focus all the way down to 0.7 ."

 

Mine did and so did three others I modified.

[Falstaff]

Rolo's advice above is spot on.

I recently acquired a double stroke M3 (1957) which needed a good service and finder patch clean. At Rolo's suggestion, I dropped it off with Peter of CRR and also asked him to adjust the focusing distance.

I can now comment on this thread because I picked up the M3 last weekend and put two films through it. It is a very different camera in all aspects, and all done for a good price.

Falstaff