Peter H Posted October 3, 2011 Share #41 Posted October 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... especially when you're in a drizzle or rain, or in the wind, or in a dusty place, and you must change the card/battery in order to make more pictures. This is a detail that helps define whether a camera is mainly for leisure-time casual use, or practical for use in more fast-paced or demanding circumstances.......... Good grief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Peter H, Take a look here Removable bottom plates, and how to deal with them.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Constable Posted October 3, 2011 Share #42 Posted October 3, 2011 Good grief. +1 The M9 is the way Solms designed it. Maybe a future model will be different (but don't hold your breath). There are two issues here - weatherproofing and access. To take an extreme view, any camera with interchangable lenses and access to memory card and battery is not weatherproof in the sense that you probably cannot take it into the morning shower with you. At the same time, I have no problem taking my M9 (or D3x or S2) out in any conditions that I want to work in ( 38 C or greater, - 12 C, rain, desert). So far, the worst I have had is nasty stuff on the sensor that is easily cleaned. If anything goes drastically wrong, I know it is my fault! The access is another issue. I agree that it is a pain to take the bottom plate off. But the Luigi solution works. Just live with it! There are things I would rather see implemented (higher resolution LCD, faster writing to card, deliverable lenses , avoiding external vf for wide angles etc.). It is a great camera system. But it isn't perfect. Nothing is. And as Leica fans, we like to moan about our favourite manufacturer! Surely? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 3, 2011 Share #43 Posted October 3, 2011 The access is another issue. I agree that it is a pain to take the bottom plate off. But the Luigi solution works. Just live with it! +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 3, 2011 Share #44 Posted October 3, 2011 Good grief. Good grief is why Luigi sells this product. Thank goodness he helps solve a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srheker Posted October 3, 2011 Share #45 Posted October 3, 2011 Good grief is why Luigi sells this product. Thank goodness he helps solve a problem. Yes, but as he seems to be selling significantly less than Leica is selling M8 and M9 it doesn't seem to be to big a problem for most users? If it was, ebay would be full of chinese-made base plates with doors. To take an extreme view, any camera with interchangable lenses and access to memory card and battery is not weatherproof in the sense that you probably cannot take it into the morning shower with you. No, Ed! This is definitely not an extreme view! If one would say that camera X is useless because you can't exchange battery or memory card in the rain, under the shower or underwater, that would be an extreme or rather funny view. With todays digital cameras one can take hundreds of shots without changing battery or memory card. It should be possible to arrange for nearly any battery or memory card exchange to be done in an safe place for any person who is able to bring both a camera and a lens to place X without forgetting one of them. Or in other words: Everybody who used a Nikonos must appear to be someone who could have also walked on the water to those, who find the M9s base plate is a big issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladik Posted October 3, 2011 Share #46 Posted October 3, 2011 Removable base plate is a illogical design, (M9 is my first Leica). Surely, it must cost more to manufacture then to have an opening for battery and a card in a solid base plate. If it were a solid base it would be more secure when tripod mounted, as is it make me bit nervoust at times. My 2c worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 3, 2011 Share #47 Posted October 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, but as he seems to be selling significantly less than Leica is selling M8 and M9 it doesn't seem to be to big a problem for most users? I'm sure it isn't a big problem for most users. Those who find it a problem will likely find the Luigi solution, or will decide that the camera is not appropriate for their photographic work. Obviously, the original poster had a problem that was significant enough to discuss. Having the plate bumped from your hand and lost during part of an event is potentially a serious problem -- depends on the event and what other cameras one has available. Fortunately, it is an unlikely occurrence. But it still raises the questions of why Leica does not move to a more practical design, and whether most users like the present design on their digital M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 3, 2011 Share #48 Posted October 3, 2011 The removable back/baseplate on the Nikon F may not have been a major drawback for most users and probably did not impact sales. I remember learning several ways to hook up the back to the camera body when changing film. At least the tripod socket was in the body and not in the baseplate but this made it even more of a hassle to change film while the camera was on a tripod, unless it was a motorized F. However Nikon changed to a hinged back on subsequent models and I can't recall a single person saying that was a bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelagia Posted October 4, 2011 Share #49 Posted October 4, 2011 However Nikon changed to a hinged back on subsequent models and I can't recall a single person saying that was a bad idea. Because by that time there were no internet forums yet The discussion above is somewhat controversial. We complain about the bottomplate being not weatherproof enough, and then wish to make even more holes in it for battery and card slots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srheker Posted October 4, 2011 Share #50 Posted October 4, 2011 Removable base plate is a illogical design, (M9 is my first Leica). Surely, it must cost more to manufacture then to have an opening for battery and a card in a solid base plate. Why should a fixed baseplate with two hinged doors, sealing for the doors, locking mechanisms for the doors etc. in it be cheaper than one plain one with one locking mechanism? If it were a solid base it would be more secure when tripod mounted Why? Is the internet full of reports of M8/M9 baseplates falling of all of a sudden? Is there a warning in the manual not to use a tripod? Have you ever heard of a M that fell of a tripod because the base plate came off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 4, 2011 Share #51 Posted October 4, 2011 Hehe - Nice to see the entrenched polarised view still fighting on! I can only report from a user perspective, as that's what I am. I've had the base plate knocked out of my hand in a busy street situation, it bent and now doesn't fit perfectly. I have to remove the plate to change the battery and the SD card, this is especially inconvenient when tripod mounted and in cold conditions. My M9 is not weather proof. I've never dropped the bottom plate to my 5DII, it is weather proofed, I can very easily change the battery or CF card when tripod mounted even in cold conditions. On the these handling variables my 5DII is far superior for my use. When considering other variables not discussed here the M9 is superior. I don't see it being a reduction in simplicity, nor a dilution of the "M" philosophy to move away from the bottom plate now that we're not loading film onto two spindles. I'm confident Leica engineers can and will come up with a quality solution on future bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted October 4, 2011 Share #52 Posted October 4, 2011 The removable bottom is a nuisance that has no place in the digital era. D It had no place in the film era either. Basically, it is bad design pure and simple. My Zeiss Ikon rangefinder manages quite happily without one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest srheker Posted October 4, 2011 Share #53 Posted October 4, 2011 I've never dropped the bottom plate to my 5DII, it is weather proofed. "weather proofed" is a marketing phrase. Use it in the pouring rain, take it to the Canon Service afterwards and be surprised what they will say! (Or to do it cheaper, just compare the EOS 1Ds sealing to that of the 5DII...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 4, 2011 Share #54 Posted October 4, 2011 I like the base plate. but one must ask, if it were to be replaced with what ? The conventional market wisdom is for side doors. However they are all rather plasticy (easy to break) and once detached, the camera needs to be sent to the factory (as there is usually a door open sensor) Lastly having a sidedoor would detract from the smooth lines of the camera and break the all around pseudo-leather wrap, which IMHO is the most important reason to keep it to the bottom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 4, 2011 Share #55 Posted October 4, 2011 I like the base plate. but one must ask, if it were to be replaced with what ? The conventional market wisdom is for side doors. However they are all rather plasticy (easy to break) and once detached, the camera needs to be sent to the factory (as there is usually a door open sensor) Lastly having a sidedoor would detract from the smooth lines of the camera and break the all around pseudo-leather wrap, which IMHO is the most important reason to keep it to the bottom Bottom doors would make more sense, and would be compatible with the current camera shape. See, for example, the bottom doors on Luigi's replacement baseplate — the smooth lines of the camera are fully preserved. Doors are rather plasticky on cheaper cameras. Pro-level cameras like the Canon 1D series have a tough metal door for the card slot, not easy to break. Likewise, the battery has a sturdy latch. On some cameras you can replace the battery door in a few seconds, no need to send it to the factory. The M9 is not a cheap camera, so I wouldn't worry that a future M would have crummy, plasticky doors that break easily. That would suck, but I don't think Leica would design them that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 4, 2011 Share #56 Posted October 4, 2011 The removable back/baseplate on the Nikon F may not have been a major drawback for most users and probably did not impact sales. ... However Nikon changed to a hinged back on subsequent models and I can't recall a single person saying that was a bad idea. Alan, do you mean to tell me that photographers didn't reject the hinged back of the Nikon F2 in favor of the slower removable back/baseplate of the original Nikon F? But surely most photographers were in favor of loading their film more slowly, while holding a separated camera part, especially in the context of photojournalism, weddings, etc. Surely they understood how the gadgetry of a removable thingy would train them in the art of anticipation and steel them in the discipline of pre-planning, not to mention improving their manual dexterity. They must have been very anxious that the new-fangled hinged back would require regular repairs. I am shocked that this change did not damage Nikon for the long term ... shocked, shocked, I tell you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 4, 2011 Share #57 Posted October 4, 2011 Leica could take a page from Apple and just make the card and battery non-removable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 4, 2011 Share #58 Posted October 4, 2011 Leica could take a page from Apple and just make the card and battery non-removable. exactly, let Leica imitate the worst aspects of the iphone How often do people change their SD card anyway ? A 16gbcard is good for over 600 shots, a 32gb for over 1200 (DNG uncompressed only) Why replace a nice metal seal with a natty swivel catch for a cheapie flap (metal or not) for an infrequent and plannable swap ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 4, 2011 Share #59 Posted October 4, 2011 exactly, let Leica imitate the worst aspects of the iphone How often do people change their SD card anyway ? A 16gbcard is good for over 600 shots, a 32gb for over 1200 (DNG uncompressed only) Why replace a nice metal seal with a natty swivel catch for a cheapie flap (metal or not) for an infrequent and plannable swap ???? Some commercial photographers may have to remove their cards frequently to review images on a computer - if they are not shooting tethered. I do this for each virtual reality image in order to download and review the sequence before moving on to the next shot. But overall I am tending to agree that before long we barely will need to change cards at all and batteries on some cameras can shoot thousands of images between charges today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 4, 2011 Share #60 Posted October 4, 2011 How often do people change their SD card anyway ? A 16gbcard is good for over 600 shots, a 32gb for over 1200 (DNG uncompressed only) Why replace a nice metal seal with a natty swivel catch for a cheapie flap (metal or not) for an infrequent and plannable swap ???? Some photographers don't trust single-card cameras with large SD cards (like 32gb), especially for important events. They will not risk so many shots on a single card, and prefer to change cards more often. 600 or 1,200 shots "in one basket" may be too much to risk when your career and reputation are on the line. Photographers who do use such large cards are more likely to be doing so in a dual-card camera, like the D3s. And of course the Leica battery won't last for 1,200 shots. Though, who knows, maybe on a future model it will? About the "cheap" -- why would Leica do anything "cheap"? Do we really worry that Leica will borrow the card/battery doors from a plastic point & shoot? You only have to look at the Canon 1D series to understand that a card door can be made for the combat zone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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