phancj Posted October 1, 2011 Share #41 Posted October 1, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) CNN just reported the possible bankruptcy of kodak....the real end to film soon? No more tri-x soon? CJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 Hi phancj, Take a look here Kodak's troubles [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted October 1, 2011 Share #42 Posted October 1, 2011 If I had to guess, I would say that the sensor business unit + intellectual property would be sold off and acquired by another company, who would continue manufacture/sale of the units. It would be great if Leica had the cash to buy them and have the ability to make all components of the camera, ala Canon. Leica just does not have the sales to pull this off, nor experience in this industry. Dr. Kaufmann owns more companies than Leica in this sector... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 1, 2011 Share #43 Posted October 1, 2011 If I had to guess, I would say that the sensor business unit + intellectual property would be sold off and acquired by another company, who would continue manufacture/sale of the units. ............. Just as long as it's not sold off to H........... , like Imacon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted October 1, 2011 Share #44 Posted October 1, 2011 Leica could buy Kodak's sensor production if they would become more realistic in their crazy pricing and start producing cameras and lenses in greater quantities at cheaper prices. Here, Leica would have more capital and cash flow go ensure supply of key components like sensors and would actually become a better company by having everything done in house. This can be done. Look at what Cosina has done and the quality of some of it's lenses as well as the Zeiss optics it makes. I have 3 Voigtlander lenses and I believe the optical and build quality are as good as Leica for much more reasonable prices. Leica has to get real and start thinking about how capitalism really works ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted October 1, 2011 Share #45 Posted October 1, 2011 Kodak has said it does not intend (now) to file for bankruptcy. They will probably make a deal with their creditors and they will likely sell off some of their assets. The questions for us are (1) whether the sensor business survives. Not sure who they sell to besides Leica, but presumably a sensor business could not survive long solely supplying Leica, so the question is whether it is profitable and whether Kodak is able to keep it or able to sell it to someone else. If it is the latter that may be a good thing as there may more resources to devote to it; and (2) whether Leica has a backup supplier. From what we have seen so far, for the M9, the answer has been no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 1, 2011 Share #46 Posted October 1, 2011 Kodak has said it does not intend (now) to file for bankruptcy. That doesn't prevent them from considering it. If after careful consideration things don't add up they could then announce that they intend to file. If that were to happen then the original statement - that they don't intend to file at the moment - would still hold true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted October 1, 2011 Share #47 Posted October 1, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...evolution in action - we have seen many come and go. Nothing "sad" about it, to my mind. Hopefully a healthy, forward-looking and profitable bunch will fill that space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted October 1, 2011 Share #48 Posted October 1, 2011 It is sad. Sad for the city of Rochester and the many people employed by the company. They end up the victims of mismanagement whilst the leaders who have been unable to turn this company around, and haven't for 35 years, banked some decent bonuses along the way. it is the way of the world, i know first hand from the work that i do, but it doesn't make it less sad. as for leica and the m9 sensor, i would have to believe they knew that had a partner that wasn't stable long term and as such had some sort of contingency in the event Kodak went under. One thing this event does insure, the M10 sensor will not be made by Kodak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 1, 2011 Share #49 Posted October 1, 2011 Both M9 and S2 has Kodak sensors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted October 1, 2011 Share #50 Posted October 1, 2011 That doesn't prevent them from considering it. If after careful consideration things don't add up they could then announce that they intend to file. If that were to happen then the original statement - that they don't intend to file at the moment - would still hold true. Yes, that was my point -- or at least the point of the the parenthetical (now). So we have to assume that any and all parts of Kodak are in play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted October 1, 2011 Share #51 Posted October 1, 2011 Kodak Image Sensor Solutions has always had an alliance with IBM who manufactured their previous CMOS sensors. Kodak Image Sensor Solutions - CMOS, CCD, full frame, interline, linear image sensors The sensor development side has market value and intellectual property value. I doubt there will be any issues that the M9 user will have to worry about when all is said and done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted October 2, 2011 Share #52 Posted October 2, 2011 Does anyone have a clue how much the KODAK sensor manufacturing is worth? Maybe all of us in this forum can join forces to buy the whole thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinse Posted October 2, 2011 Share #53 Posted October 2, 2011 Leica should make an estimate of how many sensors they still need for production and maintenance of current camera models with Kodak sensors. They then should try and get these sensors delivered as soon as possible. This should give them some time. In the meantime they then can start negotiations with other sensor manufacturers for development of sensors for new camera models. I see it as of vital importance to get away from Kodak as soon as possible as customers will get hessitant to buy a camera which they are not sure of if they can get it fixed if it needs to. Communication and assurance by Leica as soon as possible is very important in keeping up the sales figures. Customers need an answer to how Leica is thinking of replacing Kodak parts when they fail. Does Leica have acces to enough spare parts and what happens when there are no more spare parts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolame Posted October 2, 2011 Share #54 Posted October 2, 2011 Does anyone have a clue how much the KODAK sensor manufacturing is worth? Maybe all of us in this forum can join forces to buy the whole thing? Please, please, please, let's buy the film sector, sensors are also produced bei Canon, Sony and so on… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 3, 2011 Share #55 Posted October 3, 2011 I suspect what we're seeing is the product of poor long term strategic decision-making and crap management. Having said that, it also needs to be recognised that this is the typical, negative side of US style capitalism - constructive bankruptcy. By clearing the decks, something of value will come about. Not sure where that leaves those of us hoping their M9s will last them a life time (like their film counterparts). With luck, there is enough value in the sensor division for some one to pick up the business, or a successor to continue with it. If I had to guess, I would say that the sensor business unit + intellectual property would be sold off and acquired by another company, who would continue manufacture/sale of the units. It would be great if Leica had the cash to buy them and have the ability to make all components of the camera, ala Canon. Leica just does not have the sales to pull this off, nor experience in this industry. I draft contracts for this sort of thing from time to time. When a company hitches its wagon to a supplier's technology, I always get nervous. So, I tend to draft in an obligation to maintain a certain level of spares and supplies, with a notice provision if the company intends to discontinue supply so that the buyer (in this case, Leica) can stock up. I also include a provision that if supply stops indefinitely, all intellectual property and tooling is handed over, so another manufacturer can take over if necessary. Sadly, it's not always feasible, as the cost of tooling and getting production going is often not worth it. It is sad. Sad for the city of Rochester and the many people employed by the company. They end up the victims of mismanagement whilst the leaders who have been unable to turn this company around, and haven't for 35 years, banked some decent bonuses along the way. it is the way of the world, i know first hand from the work that i do, but it doesn't make it less sad. as for leica and the m9 sensor, i would have to believe they knew that had a partner that wasn't stable long term and as such had some sort of contingency in the event Kodak went under. One thing this event does insure, the M10 sensor will not be made by Kodak. I couldn't agree more. On the positive side, Leica, Hasselblad & Phase One - it's good company to be in ... Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddawn Posted October 3, 2011 Share #56 Posted October 3, 2011 Please, please, please, let's buy the film sector, sensors are also produced bei Canon, Sony and so on… So I'm not the only one worried for the future of Tri-X more than the future of the digital M Seeing how the latest Sony NEX performs with M lenses, or the efforts by Ricoh with their GXR system, i' confident Leica can find an alternative sensor supplier for the M10 (the M9 is probably going to have to be Kodak bound without ripping out the entire gut). In fact, since I've never heard much of sensors cracking or other weird anomalies plaguing those Kodak sensors, we may end up with a better digital M.... Tri-X however, that would be a real tragedy I know most of you are probably all digital now but some of us still shoot with our beloved film Ms personally even while shooting digital for a living.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolame Posted October 3, 2011 Share #57 Posted October 3, 2011 reddawan, me personally, I don't shoot Kodak b/w, but color, but it'd be a tragedy, because so many film photographers rely on Kodak… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christer Posted October 3, 2011 Share #58 Posted October 3, 2011 CNN just reported the possible bankruptcy of kodak....the real end to film soon? CJ Well GM filed for bankruptcy a few years ago and they still make and sell cars. An airline did the same thing and you can still fly........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share #59 Posted October 3, 2011 BBC News - Kodak denies it plans to file for bankruptcy protection Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 3, 2011 Share #60 Posted October 3, 2011 Kodak is now continuing to explore a sale of its digital imaging patents, worth an estimated $2bn. Let's do a whiparound on the forum and buy it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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