Nikon 1 - Some Pointers to Leica's Mirrorless System Camera?

[marknorton]

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I know Nikon is not highly regarded on this forum but their new Nikon 1 mirrorless system camera provides some pointers to what a Leica equivalent might be like. The Nikon has a rather small sensor but if you imagine an APS-C camera in a similar form factor with a Red Dot, that could be what Leica's new camera will be like.

 

Lots of conditionals there, but you can see that Nikon provide an F lens adapter and in the same way, Leica could provide M and R lens adapters on a revamped X1.

 

Probably not one for the purists but I would certainly welcome an alternative platform to use my M lenses.

[siglo]

I wasn't so excited when I learned about the N1 system censor size. Wide angle Range Finder and SLR lenses will be standard or even close to telephoto on the N1. I think the Sony NEX system with its APS-C censor is so far the best "alternative platform to use M lenses" especially the NEX-7. It would be interesting to see if Leica can come up with something better. I'm sure people will be lining up to purchase whatever leica comes up with just for the red dot. I'm not sure if it would be a better system than the NEX to use Leica lenses though.

[bill]

...I think the Sony NEX system with its APS-C censor is so far the best "alternative platform to use M lenses" especially the NEX-7.

 

Except for wideangles...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[dickgrafixstop]

The Nikon announcement is at best disappointing and the only thing in common with any Leica

offering will be the ability to produce an image. Nikon positioned their offering right in the

middle of the "interchangeable lens camera system" price point - conveniently above their best

point and shoot offering, overlapping their entry level dlsrs, and aimed at the "purse candy for

soccer moms" market. Small sensor, lenses of uncertain quality, questionable ergonomics and unproven durability or image quality.

The Leica product - based on Daniels public statement - will be a "larger sensor (APSC ?),

positioned between the X1 and the M9 with Leica quality lenses. Based on "tradition", one of

those lenses will probably retail for more than the entire Nikon system and you would expect

"M quality" images, albiet from the smaller sensor. X1 has too many limitations to merely add

an interchangeable lens capability, Solms has tried - and rejected - 4/3 based approach, and

rebadged Panasonics are on too short a life cycle to build upon - witness the early demise of

the excellent digilux - and besides the new systems needs to be "built in Germany".

Sort of a rock and a hard place position - huh?

[mmradman]

Trend in the mass market is for compact system cameras, Nikon was the most recent camera business to jump on that particular bandwagon.

 

On the other hand Leica by definition would not jump on band wagons but create them, Anyone for 35mm photography?

 

Whether latest Nikon offering is resounding commercial success or not only time will show. One thing to consider is that Nikon probably can afford to make a marketing flop, but jumping on band wagon is not likely to be failure, those pink camera and lenses will sell well. Leica has less financial muscle to experiment.

 

Paraphrasing Lord Nelson famous signal at Trafalgar Customers Expects Leica to Deliver. Leica have pretty good idea what its customers expect - M & R solution please.

[Peter H]

This Nikon release is quite reasonably aimed at people who want better photos than they get from their phones, but aren't really interested in cameras in the way the typical Leica user might be.

 

I think the features Nikon are pushing, for their target market, are to do with the various uses of video, and the fact that the camera can deliver a photo that their target photographer wouldn't have been able to create with a traditional camera.

 

Its almost the opposite of the Leica approach.

[mjh]

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Leica’s system is going to support interchangable lenses and sport an electronic viewfinder, but that’s where the similarities to the Nikon 1 system end. Of all the EVIL systems in existence I see the Nikon 1 and Pentax Q as most dissimilar from what Leica’s system might be.

[adan]

Mark, I guess I would ask:

 

What there is about the Nikon 1 system that Panasonic didn't have 3 years ago, and with a sensor sized much closer to what the Leica will likely have?

 

Interchangeable lenses? Built-in EVF? Sensor at least 4/3rds?

 

Taking the GH-1 as a starting point (first EVIL) it seems like Leica and the Nikon go in opposite directions.

[eleskin]

Although interesting, I have no interest in this camera. In fact, I have no interest in ANY camera that cannot mount Leica M lenses, that is my own opinion and need.

 

But seriously, what is with Nikon offering this tiny sensor? I heard disturbing reports that Nikon did not want to offer a larger sensor camera because it wants to protect its DSLR sales.

 

Funny how Sony showed us they have guts and came out with the NEX 7 despite the fact they too sell DSLR's but feel the future is mirrorless.

 

I agree. The mirror box is old technology, and with the NEX 7, the Fuji X100, etc,, there arte new designs coming. I have been a long time Leica M user (I have 2 M8's) and I find it very exciting other companies are adopting the idea or form factor of Leica. Leica's original idea was for a small camera and big enlargements from 35mm film. Small camera, big photo. Sony has done more with this concept than any other camera maker, regarding 21st century technology. I cannot compare it to the M9 in some ways due to the fact the M9 is in a class by itself being full frame and a rangefinder. That being said, the NEX 7 and what is to come (full frame?) brings more use to some of the best lenses ever made, especially Leica lenses!

 

This Nikon camera to me is for someone who wants something small and is not into photoshop CS5 and just wants casual photos.

 

I will NEVER buy it. I do have a money jar set aside for a NEX 7 with an M adapter!

[james.liam]

With its TINY sensor, the target audience has been clearly defined. While it is a shame, Nikon has it's bottom line to meet and with the pro SLR fabrication in the midst of its post Tsunami move to Malaysia and no FF DSLR replacements immediately available, this is what they must do. Recall that both Canon and Nikon introduced the 5D Mk.2 and D700 over three years ago and they will be loathe to lose those enthusiast users to a high-end FF EVIL camera.

 

As for Leica, its mirror-less camera will also be the rumored R-solution so if they deliver up even an APS-C sensor, many of us heavily invested in R lenses will let them rest on our Canons and Nikons. For me, the sensor would have to be no smaller than an APS-H (1.3 crop) to consider.

[AlanG]

While the Nikon N1 has some drawbacks when compared with cameras that have larger sensors, this only applies to "traditional" photography. The N1 is offering the ability to shoot high speed clips. It also allows for shooting "Motion Snapshot Mode" that can be used either as video snapshots or separated to individual images. Just looking at still image capability is not being fair to the point of this camera.

 

Keep in mind that in many applications, photography has already moved away from the print and this camera provides a different kind of image capture that is an alternative to what DSLRs and the M9 can do. Plus it does things that can't be accomplished on a cellphone or p&s either. It is not simply a "me too" camera but it remains to be seen what the interest will be in these features. Off hand I can see bird watchers, wildlife enthusiasts, pet owners, people shooting their kid's sports, etc. finding motion snapshots appealing. I bet high speed clips could be useful to breakdown the motion of golfers, baseball pitchers and batters, skiers, and other athletes for sports training.

[sdai]

I bet high speed clips could be useful to breakdown the motion of golfers, baseball pitchers and batters, skiers, and other athletes for sports training.

 

With all due respect ... I highly doubt if the 1 can even focus appropriately in these scenarios. It really is only a Coolpix on steroids.

[mjh]

Casio has been offering cameras using highspeed CMOS sensors for like 3 years, with good results. These models are quite popular as a kind of poor man’s highspeed camera. Why shouldn’t Nikon be able to do the same?

[janki]

I seem to remember that Nikon promised us a completely new camera system that would revolutionize our way of photographing.

It is possible they have their words intact, but this product NIKON 1, is not even close to what I had expected.

Is it even possible phoning and e-mailing with this “socket” too?

 

I hope that Leica really understand that when they now are building a new modern digital camera system, it must be a system with a professionally touch.

It must be a camera system for the dedicated photographer.

 

It is really necessary that the camera have a large sensor allowing a certain degree of image cropping and magnification.

Furthermore the system should have a usable range of telephoto lenses for photographing birds and animals, which Leica is missing today.

 

One of digital photography's weakest point is to produce the excellent corner-quality image from wide-angle lenses.

I hope we get a camera with an image sensor that is also well suited to the powerful wide-angle lenses.

[AlanG]

With all due respect ... I highly doubt if the 1 can even focus appropriately in these scenarios. It really is only a Coolpix on steroids.

 

I don't know how well the AF works on this camera or if it can follow focus a moving subject at a high frame rate. (Perhaps the smaller focal length lenses due to the small sensor are a plus in this regard.) Anyway it is pretty irrelevant for motion analysis of a golfer or baseball batter at a fixed spot. Or for various machine or scientific applications. Cameras such as the Nex 7 can shoot 10fps but can't refocus between shots at that speed.

 

While I think this camera may have compromised still image quality from the perspective of an M9 or DSLR user, I don't think they expect it to be competing with that market. Obviously Nikon makes quite a range of cameras and they figured this might fill a niche that their existing products don't fill - due to its unique features. I have no idea how popular this format or range of cameras and lenses will be. But if your images are viewed almost exclusively on a monitor, DSLRs and the M9 are overkill.

[rosuna]

The only pointers I see are these:

 

1) The Nikon1s have phase detection AF calculated on the sensor itself (a new CMOS), like previous compact Fujifilm cameras (but much improved).

 

This is the simplest way to implement focus confirmation on a classical M rangefinder camera, and it would provide very fast AF for the new system.

 

 

2) These cameras have electronic shutters on the sensor as well (the J1 model only has this type of shutter).

 

The on-sensor electronic shutters would provide cost savings and totally silent actuation.

 

 

These are the only interesting "ideas" or "lessons" for future Leica models, and real pointers for future technologies in many other cameras of the competition, IMHO.

 

 

Nikon 1 System First Impressions: Digital Photography Review

[earleygallery]

I predict a flop. Who are Nikon expecting to buy this camera? Their P&S sales are damaged by ever better camera phones, so presumbly they're after people who are getting more into photography, but why buy into a system that could be quickly outgrown?

[Peter H]

I predict a flop. Who are Nikon expecting to buy this camera? Their P&S sales are damaged by ever better camera phones, so presumbly they're after people who are getting more into photography, but why buy into a system that could be quickly outgrown?

 

As some above have suggested, there's a large market for cameras that do a good job of producing photos that are never likely to be printed.

 

I do believe that many DSLRs are vastly over-competent for the purposes to which they're being put, and a small, lightweight, rapid and flexible camera that can make decent videos and "moving stills" for viewing exclusively on a screen should have a big future.

 

The sensor size, the control system etc all seem tailored-made for this market. It could be a big hit except for the fact that serious photographers, at whom it is definitively not aimed, will pan for not being what they want from a camera, it and it will gain a bad rep.

[earleygallery]

I agree Peter, the typical person Nikon are aiming at will most likely share their images/clips via the Internet so sensor size and MP count are vastly greater than what is actually necessary. Which is my point. It's neither one thing or the other. IMHO.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[bpalme]

Looks like a still camera with video capability to me. If someone were to buy a camera for it's video capabilities I think they would just buy a video camera... Or even still a camera with a larger sensor like the GH2.