Please convince me NOT to buy!!!

[Guest boruwatanabe]

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boruwatanabeI, we Leica users think as much about our lenses as we think about our camera.

 

I have an M8 because it is a digital camera that will let me easily use the Leica lenses that I already owned. I suspect many of us were using Leica film cameras when digital got popular and we wanted to keep using our Leica lenses on a Leica digital camera. The M8 met that need. So if I didn't already own four Leica lenses I probably wouldn't run out and buy an M8.

 

Buying the M8 is only 1/2 of what you need to consider. You are going to have to buy some lenses too.

 

Thank you for this... I really appreciate your answer (can't say the same from other people here)...

 

I understand I'm coming from a different perspective but for me the M8 would be the first step, followed by some lenses (but of course it's not easy in terms of money to do the just with camera and nice lenses).

 

I was also thinking: I get an M8 now and in a couple of years I could upgrade to M9 if I feel like...

 

with a 28 Cron and a 50 Noctilux maybe

 

anyhow...

 

The only thing I'm afraid of is getting an M8 now and then I will inevitably compare it to anything else I had before (X100 / D300s etc...)... and because the M8 is an old camera (please don't kill me for this)... I have the feeling I could be disappointed...

 

you know a 5 years old Mac and a New Mac kind of thing right?

 

Thank you

[jaapv]

I don't think Leica is crap... if I could justify an M9 + a Noctilux for the use I would do of it... I would by it tomorrow...

 

the problem is I can't...

 

the only thing I can justify is a used M8...

 

and pardon me for being realistic but I still think what I wrote above is being realistic... not fan boy... realistic!

 

if we were talking about film cameras then i would agree with you... 3 year 5 year... 10 years... doesn't matter...

 

but a 4 years old digital camera???

Err.. The sensor design on the M 9 is the same as the M8, which dates back to 2004, not 2007, the camera had been on the market for a year by then. Which is pretty good by the way, the basic Canon CMos design dates back to the mid-1990ies:rolleyes:

[Guest boruwatanabe]

Err.. The sensor design on the M 9 is the same as the M8, which dates back to 2004, not 2007, the camera had been on the market for a year by then. Which is pretty good by the way, the basic Canon CMos design dates back to the mid-1990ies:rolleyes:

 

So are you implying Canon did a better job with theirs design of the CMOS sensor from the mid 90s in terms of ISO / Noise than Leica did with M8 / 9 in 2004?

 

[jaapv]

You are confusing sensor performance with noise reduction. Sensors basically produce the same amount of noise depending on type, with CCD the least.However noisereduction starts on-sensor by electronic circuits on the sensor on CMOS. The sensors as such have been very close to the theoretical limit in that repect since the turn of the century.

All the rest is electronics and software. Leica follows the philosophy of using the cleanest sensor (CCD) and virtually no in-camera noise reduction. That is up to the user in postprocesing. This insures maximum detail and best color. Canon, Nikon et al. believe in reducing noise in the camera to save the user the trouble. However it does come at the price of loss of detail, less color fidelity and (fortunately less and less as software improves) digital plastic look.

CMos is catching up and the M10 might well have a different sensor if Leica can find one that is better than the current one.

 

You are not alone in this error. DXO measures camera output and presents it as sensor performance. Very misleading.

[Stateowned]

i've seen pictures of the canon 1d mark 2 + 100-400L which would completely oblitterate the current 1100d - 7d and everything in between.

 

the only thing that thing couldn't do is go past 800 iso without too much noise..noise you only see if you magnify the picture bigger then regular printing size.

 

for my i sold my new leica x1 for a used M8, i now have a 28/2.0 so i went up 1 step in light sensitivity. i might be being the nokton 50 1.1 on very short notice...

 

i switched to the x1 from a canon 1d3 which is a huge difference.. and ofcourse i told the next step already.

 

i just wanted to "photograph" again.. change the aperture myself focus my self.. no weird or crazy remarks like "back / front focus" and crazy stuff like that on modern SLR.

 

The M camera is not easy to use and if you think you will get worse quality then you have now. you shouldn't do it at all.

 

if you want leica.. get an olympus PEN with the 25mm f1.4 summilux.

[Guest boruwatanabe]

You are confusing sensor performance with noise reduction. Sensors basically produce the same amount of noise depending on basic type, with CCD the least.However noisereduction starts on-sensor by electronic circuits on the sensor on CMOS. The sensors as such have been very close to the theoretical limit in that repect since the turn of the century.

All the rest is electronics and software. Leica follows the philosophy of using the cleanest sensor (CCD) and virtually no in-camera noise reduction. That is up to the user in postprocesing. This insures maximum detail and best color. Canon, Nikon et al. believe in reducing noise in the camera to save the user the trouble. However it does come at the price of loss of detail, less color fidelity and (fortunately less and less as software improves) digital plastic look.

CMos is catching up and the M10 might well have a different sensor if Leica can find one that is better than the current one.

 

You are not alone in this error. DXO measures camera output and presents it as sensor performance. Very misleading.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification, in the mean time I went through the M8 review from stevehuffphoto.com I found on google and I am a little bit more convinced about the M8...

 

what you guys suggest in terms of buying it? ebay? gumtree? leica dealer?

 

I found on ebay an M8 mint with 7000 actuations for 1450£... do you think I would be better off looking for an official dealer and try to get a bit of warranty (spending more)...

 

Thank again!

[Guest boruwatanabe]

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i've seen pictures of the canon 1d mark 2 + 100-400L which would completely oblitterate the current 1100d - 7d and everything in between.

 

the only thing that thing couldn't do is go past 800 iso without too much noise..noise you only see if you magnify the picture bigger then regular printing size.

 

for my i sold my new leica x1 for a used M8, i now have a 28/2.0 so i went up 1 step in light sensitivity. i might be being the nokton 50 1.1 on very short notice...

 

i switched to the x1 from a canon 1d3 which is a huge difference.. and ofcourse i told the next step already.

 

i just wanted to "photograph" again.. change the aperture myself focus my self.. no weird or crazy remarks like "back / front focus" and crazy stuff like that on modern SLR.

 

The M camera is not easy to use and if you think you will get worse quality then you have now. you shouldn't do it at all.

 

if you want leica.. get an olympus PEN with the 25mm f1.4 summilux.

 

I currently have an X100 and I use it full manual (and I LUV IT!!!) no fancy buttons or other shit... just aperture / time... unfortunately the manual focus sucks... I'm pretty sure the M8 will be awesome to manual focus!

[delander †]

If you go the M8 route, buy it from a dealer to get some sort of warranty. Leica repairs can be costly. Also visit a dealer and try the camera particularly at iso 640, 1250 in low light. Also take these test shots in raw (dng) and view in Lightroom or Capture One etc. See if you like the camera handling and the results it produces.

 

Jeff

[PBatemanJ]

I'm using M8, M9, 5D2 and X100. High ISO is a few stop better in 5D2 and X100 but I do not like these images at all in whole range of ISOs. The low quality of optical finder, slow and inaccurate focusing of X100, fixed lens make me not to use X100 as much as possible and use M8 or M9 even If it is difficult conditions. There are only a few stops difference so I use slow shutter speed and faster lens.

If you have no problem with those files, handlings, low quarity fixed lens of X100, no need to think to get M8.

If you are not sure, just buy M8 and use for several month and decide whether you will keep or sell it.

SATOKI

[pico]

Don't buy any new camera. You are apparently happy with what you have and are not acute enough to appreciate what a digital Leica will give you.

 

So keep your money in your pocket. Change nothing. Spend the extra money on entertainment like great diners, short vacations, or getting stupid staring at TV.

 

Very simple. Change nothing.

[Guest boruwatanabe]

Don't buy any new camera. You are apparently happy with what you have and are not acute enough to appreciate what a digital Leica will give you.

 

So keep your money in your pocket. Change nothing. Spend the extra money on entertainment like great diners, short vacations, or getting stupid staring at TV.

 

Very simple. Change nothing.

 

This is actually a nice suggestion, clearly there are too many bright people like you there is no need for someone else to join the club!

 

I'll have a great night out, a short holiday... and watch some tv... in the hope of never bumping in people like you!

[Guest boruwatanabe]

I'm using M8, M9, 5D2 and X100. High ISO is a few stop better in 5D2 and X100 but I do not like these images at all in whole range of ISOs. The low quality of optical finder, slow and inaccurate focusing of X100, fixed lens make me not to use X100 as much as possible and use M8 or M9 even If it is difficult conditions. There are only a few stops difference so I use slow shutter speed and faster lens.

If you have no problem with those files, handlings, low quarity fixed lens of X100, no need to think to get M8.

If you are not sure, just buy M8 and use for several month and decide whether you will keep or sell it.

SATOKI

 

I think this is what i will do... as you said if i end up no liking it i can always resell it easily i guess! Thank you

[Guest boruwatanabe]

Don't buy any new camera. You are apparently happy with what you have and are not acute enough to appreciate what a digital Leica will give you.

 

So keep your money in your pocket. Change nothing. Spend the extra money on entertainment like great diners, short vacations, or getting stupid staring at TV.

 

Very simple. Change nothing.

 

LOL I am pretty sure you are one of that idiots who don't own a TV and feel superior to who does!

 

you pathetic human being hold on to you leica!

[pico]

LOL I am pretty sure you are one of that idiots who don't own a TV and feel superior to who does!

 

you pathetic human being hold on to you leica!

 

(He was talking to me, Pico)

 

Welcome to my killfile. I've been working in high-tech before you were born. Do what you wish. Nobody really cares. And I'll never have to view your lame posts again.

[businessasusual]

The Masochist said to the Sadist "Hit me, please hit me." The Sadist refused.

[Guest boruwatanabe]

(He was talking to me, Pico)

 

Welcome to my killfile. I've been working in high-tech before you were born. Do what you wish. Nobody really cares. And I'll never have to view your lame posts again.

 

Of course I was talking to you, didn't you read pathetic and human being in the same sentence? That's you pal!

 

Before I was born? Really? So you were in high tech when high tech was not so high and less tech, kudos to you old man!

[cblackmer]

No we cannot as you have baseless preconceptions

 

+1

.....also the tone of your sophomoric deduction is very offensive.

[Archiver]

So let's get this straight: you want a Leica and you would buy a M9 and Noctilux if you could.

 

You also class Leica owners as fanboys and fools who only buy a Leica for the 'stupid red dot' that makes you 'feel cool' when you take it out of your bag.

 

So what you are saying is that you want to be a foolish fanboy.

[Shade]

I am not saying I want to shot a 6400 but if I shoot at 1250 and it looks like a freaking nokia mobile phone from the year 2000 then fuck yeah... Leica shouldn't be for you either guys...

 

Well, you see what you see, and you like what you like. I don't see any resemblance from the result from an M8 being similiar to a Nokia from year 2000. From any point of view.

 

you are saying you would limit yourself to shooting at a max of iso 640 just because you can get a stupid red dot with Leica written on it -> so when you take it out of your bag you feel cool?

 

Nope, I don't limit it. I go to whatever ISO I need to take the pictures I want.

 

and on top of that you would rather pay 1.5k body only for a 4 years old camera out of warranty???

 

Some people pay 10x over for a car because it's production and values and certain qualities that's not available from other manufacturers. It's not problem of if someone would RATHER pay, or WORTH it. It's about what you want, and what you can afford. If I am bill gates, I'd say windows is worth more than Mac. If I am Seal, I'd say a Titanium M9 is worth it.

 

then guys... there is definitely something I am missing here... and I opened up this post to find out...

 

can you please help me understand?

 

You can't understand. Any explanation provided here would be bizzarre for you if you have a worth it, or rather pay for it mind set. If 1.5k GBP is too much for you, then it's too much for you man. No word or letters can convince you the other wise.

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Hallo,

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