Set Camera to sRGB or Adobe RGB, WHY?

[pgk]

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Its interesting to me to note that one of my photo libraries has been bought by a much bigger (the 'biggest' I believe) library who require uploaded files as max quality jpegs and in 'RGB'. I queried this and was told as long as its RGB they are happy (and either aRGB or sRGB was fine). Considering that libraries supply many of the images reproduced in many different ways, this does make me wonder if we aren't being a little over pedantic much of the time? If of course, you are working to the highest standards, and have a fully controlled 'cradle to grave' workflow, then for the highest quality output it makes sense to work to maximise the colour integrity (and everything else), but I suspect that what happens in reality is that 'best practice' yields only marginally better final output much of the time which only a 'trained/experienced' observer would be able to appreciate.

[Steve_F]

A very valid point. I think alot is made of of aRGB vs sRGB. Most people probably can't truly tell the difference. After working in the paint industry for 8 years it's a nightmare for me, chasing my tail trying to get colours where I want them. Pedantic is the word again.

 

 

 

Steve.

[jaapv]

 

 

 

That makes sense. Now—please explain to the original poster how to select "ProPhoto RGB" from a menu that provides two options, "sRGB" and "Adobe RGB". No wait—don't bother. I was just kidding ... in a desperate attempt to make you aware what this discussion really is about, and what the correct answer is, and why.

If you read post # 1 you should have read post #2 as well:rolleyes:

[stunsworth]

Now—please explain to the original poster how to select "ProPhoto RGB" from a menu that provides two options, "sRGB" and "Adobe RGB". No wait—don't bother. I was just kidding ... in a desperate attempt to make you aware what this discussion really is about, and what the correct answer is, and why.

 

Those options only apply if you are shooting Jpeg. I think everyone I've ever met using an M8 or M9 shoots DNG - i.e. RAW. It is a mistake in my opinion, for most people, to use a digital M and shoot Jpeg. If you shoot RAW the colour space you assign is applied at the point of opening a RAW file - in for example Photoshop. If you don't understand the process there are a host of books available to explain the concepts.

[honcho]

If you want definitive information, download THIS:

 

Digital guidelines - Chartered Quality Institute

 

(It has my name on it, amongst a few others ;-)).

[pgk]

honcho - thanks Steve - I think that the goal of 'Predictable Output' says it all.

 

stunsworth - I've never understood Leica's decision to include jpegs as an option unless of course this was put in to satisfy the 'low end requirement' users of whom there will be a certain number. Assuming M digitals to be 'serious photographer's tools, then jpeg to my mind is irrelevant although no doubt the (very) few photojournalists who shoot jpeg will disagree (I may be in dangerous water with this statement).

 

jaapv - I have no problem with any workflow which aims at maximum quality throughout, but just occasionally it is worth actually comparing two different mechanisms used to produce the same result. When I have done so I have been surprised at how little differences can often be seen (compared to the foreboding tales from the web of disater and ruin:eek:).

[jaapv]

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Thanks Honcho - tht is a very complete summary.

Paul - yes, you are probably right, but if there is not extra effort required in doing it the right way, why shouldn't one ?

[mjh]

I've never understood Leica's decision to include jpegs as an option unless of course this was put in to satisfy the 'low end requirement' users of whom there will be a certain number.

At the time the M8 was developed, Leica believed the vast majority of buyers would use a raw workflow so the the JPEG option was more of an afterthought. But this assumption was wrong; a sizable percentage of digital M photographers are using JPEGs mainly and Leica had to improve the internal image processing (including AWB) to better cater for those customers.

[stunsworth]

...a sizable percentage of digital M photographers are using JPEGs mainly and Leica had to improve the internal image processing (including AWB) to better cater for those customers.

 

I agree, Buying an M8/9 doesn't mean you're necessarily a 'serious' photographer. It means that you have the money to buy one.

[honcho]

Jpeg has it's place and it would be a serious omission from a professional platform in some cases and it can be a useful exercise to actually shoot jpeg as a means of getting to a point where you really understand your camera in order to get the best from it.

 

Jpeg is a good teacher, it requires photographer input and knowledge to create the best usable jpeg in camera and understanding how to control white balance, tone, contrast and exposure before creating an image is invaluable.

 

There is life beyond your raw developer.

[jaapv]

But will it be that way? As it is more and more cameras are raw capable, converters get more and more user friendly, evolving into complete editing programs etc.

It is just a matter of time before raw is the standard.

Probably this way of thinking is what inspired Adobe to introduce DNG.

[honcho]

You answered your own question. Many believed that .dng would become the universally preferred format a few years ago.

[01af]

I've never understood Leica's decision to include jpegs as an option unless of course this was put in to satisfy the 'low end requirement' users of whom there will be a certain number.

Ugh ... a camera that includes an entirely silly thing such as a snapshot profile in a prominent place (so it will constantly get the way, yet can't get altered into something useful) simply cannot relinquish JPEG, can it?

 

I would not want a digital camera that cannot produce in-camera JPEG files. Of course, a digital camera that cannot produce raw files would be even worse, so a raw-only camera would still be better than a JPEG-only camera. And unlike the stupid snapshot profile, in-camera JPEG can be disabled if you don't want it. Anyway—in-camera JPEG is useful at times, and the M9's is better than poor reputation suggests ... in particular, in-camera moiré suppression is pretty good. I always shoot DNG+JPEG (with in-camera colour management set to sRGB ... in case someone's wondering).

[pgk]

I always shoot DNG+JPEG (with in-camera colour management set to sRGB ... in case someone's wondering).

Yes the Snapshot setting is more irrelevant I must admit.

 

I shoot RAW (DNG) only in aRGB, FWIW (as I do on my Canons), process throughout in '16-bit' and save as a master .psd file - which is adjusted as appropriate when I need to create a file for specific output requirements and size.

[01af]

I shoot raw (DNG) only in aRGB ...

Huh!? "aRGB"? I guess you mean Adobe RGB, don't you? Whatever you mean—with the camera set to DNG only, in-camera colour management is meaningless and hence, disabled. So you're using neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB ... either would be a foolish choice for DNG anyway.

 

 

... process throughout in '16-bit' and save as a master .psd file ...

Saving a demosaiced master file is an entirely pointless waste of time and memory space. The DNG itself (including ACR/Lightroom settings in the metadata) is your master file.

[pgk]

Huh!? "aRGB"? I guess you mean Adobe RGB, don't you? Whatever you mean—with the camera set to DNG only, in-camera colour management is meaningless and hence, disabled. So you're using neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB ... either would be a foolish choice for DNG anyway.

Saving a demosaiced master file is an entirely pointless waste of time and memory space. The DNG itself (including ACR/Lightroom settings in the metadata) is your master file.

You are of course correct - what I should have said was that when I originally got my M8 I set it to AdobeRGB (aRGB) when I actually did shoot a few jpegs, and there it remained set - or I assume it did. On my M8.2 which I have never shot a jpeg on, I have never set anything so its on whatever default it was set to at the factory, and I've never checked as I've never shot a jpeg on it, so this is irrelevant.

 

PSD files have their place, believe me, as there is just so much that can be carried out during the raw conversion. Other adjustments need to be carried out in Photoshop and I'm not prepared to lose such adjustments. Agencies have (often rather odd IMHO) requirements and so none exclusive images are held as PSDs. Hard drives are pretty cheap these days......

 

I should also add that not everyone has the same requirements for files. Its impossible to be prescriptive - although I see no use for in-camera jpegs personally, and they should be an anathema to any 'quality' workflow, I accept that they do have their place.

[pico]

I will comment only upon the computer.

 

I was happily surprised to find that the Mac Air is adequate for editing any M9 DNG file and full resolution JPG or TIFF from the output. I've 4GB. No extras.

 

I have not tried batching large sets of images on the Air yet.

[250swb]

Huh!? "aRGB"? I guess you mean Adobe RGB, don't you?

 

It is clear a little knowledge goes a long way, otherwise you wouldn't want to milk general conversation and the general meaning of a discussion and turn it into pompous one-upmanship.

 

Steve

[jaapv]

Huh!? "aRGB"? I guess you mean Adobe RGB, don't you? Whatever you mean—with the camera set to DNG only, in-camera colour management is meaningless and hence, disabled. So you're using neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB ... either would be a foolish choice for DNG anyway.

 

 

 

Saving a demosaiced master file is an entirely pointless waste of time and memory space. The DNG itself (including ACR/Lightroom settings in the metadata) is your master file.

 

Maybe you should have a peek at Paul's website before hectoring him; compared to your non-existent one....

A little matter like proof of expertise....

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[pgk]

To go back to the OP's question I will now answer it again so that you can fully understand my position (this is my opinion only) - if you intend to shoot jpegs with your M digital camera then it may well be best to set it to sRGB as to do so means that there is little possibility of significant post processing without substantial data loss and sRGB should be adequate and potentially more relevant (this still depends on what you do with your images). On the other hand if you intend to shoot RAW then its irrelevant.