ho_co Posted August 19, 2011 Share #21 Posted August 19, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why look at others' sharp pictures when yours aren't sharp? Have you checked focus of the lens, either as Erl suggested in post 11 above or using such an aid as that at Nikon D70 Focus Chart, or doing some through-focus testing? It seems to me it's a waste to lament an unsharp lens when you don't know whether both it and your camera are working properly together. You have to eliminate the possible causes of error one by one to find out why it's not giving you the results you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Hi ho_co, Take a look here Post your SHARP Noctilux F.1 photos. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted August 20, 2011 Share #22 Posted August 20, 2011 To emphasize Howard's comment, looking at someone else's 'sharp' pics will not change anything on yours. Clearly you are not happy with the performance of your lens/camera combo regarding focus. Now that is established, test it by some reliable means as previously described. If it fails the test, separate the camera and lens and test each individually with an alternative body/lens. When you discover which is faulty, send it for repair. Actually, even if only one is 'off', send both for service and matching. That is a good idea when it comes to critical lenses like the Noct. OTOH, if they both prove OK (best option), then you know you are the weak link. That is when your training starts. It's a long, but rewarding route. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share #23 Posted August 20, 2011 well, first of all I wanted to understand if the lens is capable of giving sharp results wide open. What is the point of looking for a weak link if it could be clearly the lens just because of its limits. That's why I wanted to see some clear evidences of the lens performance at F1. Actually this thread have shown just one image which is clearly sharp in small details to my eyes. But one is enough My samples, I picked the best after some focus-bracketing, focus on the toy eye in both cases: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/159712-post-your-sharp-noctilux-f1-photos/?do=findComment&comment=1770494'>More sharing options...
HeinzX Posted August 20, 2011 Share #24 Posted August 20, 2011 Hello, in analog times I had a Noct. 1:1.0 and used it on the M 6. The lens is not really sharp with aperture wide open. That is a contibution to the spheric design and the remaining rest of not fully corrected residual problems. But exactly this gives the lens a specific charm. If sharpness with wide open aperture is the wish this lens is not the right choice. Then the new Noct 1:0,95 or much cheaper and smaller - the Summilux 50/1.4 ASPH is the right thing. In the LFI (LEICA FOTOGRAFIE INTERNATIONAL) number 2/2010 (February 2010) there is a very interesting article dealing exactly with the different Noctiluxs and their characteristics (with illlustrations of the lens design). I do not know, if this number is still available and if the publication is available in English at all - but the article is of high interest, as this publication usually always is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted August 20, 2011 Share #25 Posted August 20, 2011 Dmitry, I sincerely hope you did not base your purchase on the never ending lightweight waffle that surrounds the f.1 Noctilux on internet forums. Asking people to post their 'sharp' images will prove nothing and will only waste your time. Study the mtf values for the information you need. Send your lens and camera away for 6 bit coding and calibration. You may also find that to really get the best from f.1 Noctilux ownership is to own a Summilux or Summicron alongside it. Looking on the bright side, if you find the Noctilux is not for you then you have a used lens that is appreciating in value and will go some way to funding the Noctilux you really want. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share #26 Posted August 20, 2011 Dmitry, I sincerely hope you did not base your purchase on the never ending lightweight waffle that surrounds the f.1 Noctilux on internet forums. Asking people to post their 'sharp' images will prove nothing and will only waste your time. Study the mtf values for the information you need. Send your lens and camera away for 6 bit coding and calibration. You may also find that to really get the best from f.1 Noctilux ownership is to own a Summilux or Summicron alongside it. Looking on the bright side, if you find the Noctilux is not for you then you have a used lens that is appreciating in value and will go some way to funding the Noctilux you really want. ;-) Hi Steve, thanks for your comment! Dont get me wrong, I'm absolutely happy with the lens, you preserved it in excellent condition. I'm not planning to let it go ever, the crazy out of focus rendering alone worths owning this lens. I'm just learning capabilities of my new toy And actually, yes, I've got lux and cron alongside. And made a order for 0.95 while ago. BTW, I've sent you a email few days ago, please check it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 20, 2011 Share #27 Posted August 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your pics look normal at first glance. The Noctilux is a lens from the seventees. It is evidently softer than the 50/0.95 at full aperture, let alone the slower Summilux asph or Summicron. No valid comparisons can be made between different apertures anyway. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/159712-post-your-sharp-noctilux-f1-photos/?do=findComment&comment=1770644'>More sharing options...
Holybasil Posted August 20, 2011 Share #28 Posted August 20, 2011 Those shots you posted look right to me, bbbonthemoon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted August 20, 2011 Share #29 Posted August 20, 2011 well, first of all I wanted to understand if the lens is capable of giving sharp results wide open. What is the point of looking for a weak link if it could be clearly the lens just because of its limits. That's why I wanted to see some clear evidences of the lens performance at F1. Actually this thread have shown just one image which is clearly sharp in small details to my eyes. But one is enough My samples, I picked the best after some focus-bracketing, focus on the toy eye in both cases: I have to agree with you ....... these don't look wonderful..... Looks like you have vaseline on the lens...... and there is a lot of 'haloing' which although well recognised in high contrast edges that is surprising in these very neutral shots..... HOWEVER..... perhaps it is a feature of the distance you are using .... this is what Puts has to say.... Most standard lenses are designed for optimum performance at infinity. The optical corrections however ensure that at a close distance range, say 1meter, the performance is hardly degraded. Very high aperture lenses, being less optimally corrected for astigmatism, coma, curvature of field, spherical aberration and second order chromatic aberrations, will perform less good at distances in a range below 2 meters. We compared the Noctilux and the Summicron at a distance of 1meter at all apertures. The Noctilux showed sharp object-outlines, but fine details were a little fuzzy at the edges and very fine detail was not resolved at all. From f/4,0 till f/11,0 the performance of the Noctilux markedly improved and became excellent at f/8,0. Closeups at full aperture, however, are not the Noctilux’s forte. But then who will use this lens in such a situation. The depth of field at f/1,0 and 1 meter is a mere 1-2 cm! Portraits at this distance and aperture are bound to disappoint from a technical perspective that is.[/ I] ........ ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share #30 Posted August 21, 2011 I have to agree with you ....... these don't look wonderful..... Looks like you have vaseline on the lens...... and there is a lot of 'haloing' which although well recognised in high contrast edges that is surprising in these very neutral shots..... well, overall resolving power reminds me DR Summicron 50 from the fifties. Not even close to what modern asph lenses deliver. HOWEVER..... perhaps it is a feature of the distance you are using .... this is what Puts has to say.... Most standard lenses are designed for optimum performance at infinity. The optical corrections however ensure that at a close distance range, say 1meter, the performance is hardly degraded. Very high aperture lenses, being less optimally corrected for astigmatism, coma, curvature of field, spherical aberration and second order chromatic aberrations, will perform less good at distances in a range below 2 meters. We compared the Noctilux and the Summicron at a distance of 1meter at all apertures. The Noctilux showed sharp object-outlines, but fine details were a little fuzzy at the edges and very fine detail was not resolved at all. From f/4,0 till f/11,0 the performance of the Noctilux markedly improved and became excellent at f/8,0. Closeups at full aperture, however, are not the Noctilux’s forte. But then who will use this lens in such a situation. The depth of field at f/1,0 and 1 meter is a mere 1-2 cm! Portraits at this distance and aperture are bound to disappoint from a technical perspective that is.[/ I] ........ ??? hmm, very interesting point. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 21, 2011 Share #31 Posted August 21, 2011 Why not saying simply that the Noctilux 50/1 is not sharp at f/1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmond_terakopian Posted August 21, 2011 Share #32 Posted August 21, 2011 As has been suggested already, I'd send the lens and camera(s) to Solms so they can be checked out. Definitely get the lens coded and calibrated for your camera. I did this with a Noctilux ASPH that was back focusing on my M9. Once done, practice and enjoy :-) The Noctilux takes mastering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share #33 Posted August 21, 2011 Why not saying simply that the Noctilux 50/1 is not sharp at f/1? Try to be polite and avoid hurting other people's feelings by harsh statements Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share #34 Posted August 21, 2011 As has been suggested already, I'd send the lens and camera(s) to Solms so they can be checked out. Definitely get the lens coded and calibrated for your camera. I did this with a Noctilux ASPH that was back focusing on my M9. Once done, practice and enjoy :-) The Noctilux takes mastering. Yes, I will do that The point of this thread is to understand what Nocti F1 is capable wide open from other people experience rather then MTF curves and etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmond_terakopian Posted August 21, 2011 Share #35 Posted August 21, 2011 Yes, I will do that The point of this thread is to understand what Nocti F1 is capable wide open from other people experience rather then MTF curves and etc. I've never used the f1.0 versions but from all the images I've seen, it's not a clinically sharp lens but has a beautiful, glowy rendition. It's a signature look which is beautiful when used with the right subjects. The Noctilux ASPH differs in being a sharp lens (even wide open) and capable of being an all rounder. Have fun with it :-) Edmond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 21, 2011 Share #36 Posted August 21, 2011 There seems to be constant requests for f1.0 noct shots with 100% crops. I don't know what it proves, but for those that seek it, here 'tis. This was made today at f1.0 on the beach. Yes, it's winter here, but you would not know at present. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This a 100% crop of the above image. Make of it what you will regarding 'sharp'. The only PP was for levels and a bit of colour balancing. jpeg sourced from DNG on M9 + Noctilux. Normally I would apply 'capture sharpening, which is probably needed, but I deliberately omitted it for this example. The hardcopy print is much sharper. I assume the net repro loses something. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This a 100% crop of the above image. Make of it what you will regarding 'sharp'. The only PP was for levels and a bit of colour balancing. jpeg sourced from DNG on M9 + Noctilux. Normally I would apply 'capture sharpening, which is probably needed, but I deliberately omitted it for this example. The hardcopy print is much sharper. I assume the net repro loses something. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/159712-post-your-sharp-noctilux-f1-photos/?do=findComment&comment=1771339'>More sharing options...
adan Posted August 22, 2011 Share #37 Posted August 22, 2011 I don't get the questions about why the OP asked to see others' samples. He wants to know what the Noctilux can normally do, because maybe "less-than-sharp" is the norm. As mentioned, most of the samples in response were NOT taken at 1 meter, and lens performance can really fall off when focused close (that's the main reason Leica began introduce floating elements in M lenses - and other manufacturers began introducing them 40 years ago - to actually change the optics slightly for close distances!) It's also the reason the 50 Noctilux (EVEN the 0.95 version) - and the PRE-ASPH f/1.4 50 (except the very last few built) and 35 f/1.4 PRE-ASPH are close-limited to 1 meter. They get really soft any closer. I've used the 50 Summilux PRE-ASPH in the last version which allowed .7 meter focusing - and "sharp" does not apply to any part of those images. The spherical aberrations take over. They look about like the OP's Noctilux shots at 1m, so I'm not surprised that he is getting "nothing but Leica glow" at that distance (f/1 being even more challenging to design than f/1.4). Probably Leica should have limited the more extreme f/1 lens to 1.5 meters - except that sometimes a fuzzy picture is better than no picture at all (and sometimes a "dreamy" shot is what the photographer wants ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 22, 2011 Share #38 Posted August 22, 2011 I think we are all (me included) beating round the bush on this one. Simply put: If you want really sharp, you don't want a noctilux! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #12 Posted August 25, 2011 Share #39 Posted August 25, 2011 ... My samples, I picked the best after some focus-bracketing, focus on the toy eye in both cases: ...maybe not the best test subject ... use a resolution target, or maybe some text. I have tested the 50/1 against the 50/1.4 asph., 50/1.4 pre-asph., and 50/2.8 last version. For me the noctilux difference was more noticeable at 2-3m than at, say, a little past 1m. It is a soft lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 25, 2011 Share #40 Posted August 25, 2011 ...maybe not the best test subject ... use a resolution target, or maybe some text. I have tested the 50/1 against the 50/1.4 asph., 50/1.4 pre-asph., and 50/2.8 last version. For me the noctilux difference was more noticeable at 2-3m than at, say, a little past 1m. It is a soft lens. Allow me to correct your last sentence. "It is a softer lens", compared to those you mentioned. However, it is still capable of sharp picture at f1.0 if you know what you are doing. But yes, there are sharper lenses around. As Einstein said: Everything is relative. Choose the tool for the effect you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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