Anyone have first hand knowledge of Leica listening?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Woody I'm with you on that . My life and/or back has certainly been much happier. Shot a wedding yesterday with 2 M8's and 6 lenses in a small bag an tomorrow start a 3 day corporate sales meeting and same package. I even downsized my lighting gear. Going smaller and smaller as i get older is my new motto. LOL

 

If i buy a MF system i am also buying a assisant to go with it. I'm over the big heavy stuff

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[pascal_meheut]

There are so many companies that share their roadmap i can't list them all, here are a few

big cap:

IBM

CA

HP

 

How many in the photography industry ? How many in the B2C segment ? And BTW, I did that for a living in a previous life: sharing IBM's roadmap with our customers...

 

I also remember quite well going back to the same customer, a big bank for instance or the guys building the Airbus planes to tell them that our roadmap had changed because market conditions did or because some technology had never taken off...

Huge success, I had to come with my armor.

 

One reason companies like Leica are reluctant to share their roadmap is that it will probably hurt short-term sales and provoke a lot of grinding and whining later if they are late or have to adjust to the market.

[ptomsu]

Just talked to some Leica representatives in Europe and

 

YES, the DMR is cancelled and

YES, there is no digi solution for R in the moment and

YES, there would be further demand for the DMR and

NO, there will not be any solution (R10?) at least till Photokina 2008 (earliest).

 

I call this real great business policy! Great Leica!

 

Enjoy your DMR

 

Peter

[cocker]

 

from an american business perspective leica is weak in marketing....they just are ...this is how they decided to run their company....

 

rich

 

I find the "american business perspective" sadly lacking and prefer to deal with companies with a more genuine and humane approach - I'm prepared to make some allowances for them.

[pascal_meheut]

YES, the DMR is cancelled and

YES, there is no digi solution for R in the moment and

YES, there would be further demand for the DMR and

NO, there will not be any solution (R10?) at least till Photokina 2008 (earliest).

 

I call this real great business policy! Great Leica!

 

And I remember Canon did the same with the D60 or the Eos10D...

 

More whining please.

[tom0511]

Personally I dont see the Leica-customer-communication as negative as some posters in this thread.

 

Agreed, it took some pressure but Leica responded fast and in detail regarding the IR-sensitivity etc.

 

Also Leica informed upfront when they were developping the DMR and the M8.

Which company did offer a special deal to apolegize for problems in the first batches of their products? Canon, Nikon, Mercedes? No. Leica offers a 30%off deal.

They also inform us about timing regarding this deal.

In combination with this Leica offers a lot of information about their products on the website.

If you look at Nikon or Canon you can not find close as much information about their lenses compared to the infos from Leica.

Leica offers this forum to allow discussion between users.

Where are the Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax customer forums?

 

Leica is not a perfect company, but why some people seem to focus on every minor negative thing they do and forget the great things they offer.

 

5 years ago my deepest wish was a digital M and I thought it would never happen. Today its reality and the IQ is as good as I could hope.

[Riley]

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i think quite regardless of who owns the forum

manufacturers will have a look what is happening on various levels

I have been challenged by brand X over things I have said at steves forum

this was to do with LC-1 sensor failures

and I have seen responses from manufacturers over advertising issues at dpreview forum

 

so do Leica check it out here, sure, of course they do

but so do Canon, Nikon, etc

and lets not forget, hallo Mr Putts

apparently even Bela Lugosi

 

for myself, I dont see what is wrong with that

[mwilliamsphotography]

Leica will tell us about something if it is to their advantage to do so. In marketing terms it's done to hold the market. With no word what-so-ever on a R digital camera, how many would have jumped ship to Canon or Nikon? The pre-announcement held those potential customers out of the market, and bought the company time.

 

Knowing that a firmware upgrade is coming for the DMR is all I need know. Soon I hope, but eventually is okay as long as "eventually" happens before I run out of birthdays.

 

R 10? Bring it out whenever it's right. I'm not selling my DMR even if they do launch a R 10. It's not like the excellent stuff from the DMR suddenly isn't excellent.

 

Fix the M8, and then tell us it's fixed. Don't tell me you're going to fix it, because this early on it keeps changing as to what has to be fixed. What company wants to keep advertising one fix after another? Collect em all, and fix it.

[like_no_other]

How many in the photography industry ? How many in the B2C segment ? And BTW, I did that for a living in a previous life: sharing IBM's roadmap with our customers...

 

I also remember quite well going back to the same customer, a big bank for instance or the guys building the Airbus planes to tell them that our roadmap had changed because market conditions did or because some technology had never taken off...

Huge success, I had to come with my armor.

 

One reason companies like Leica are reluctant to share their roadmap is that it will probably hurt short-term sales and provoke a lot of grinding and whining later if they are late or have to adjust to the market.

 

Not many in B2C if any make their roadmap public. Pentax maybe is the only photo company that published its roadmap. But as far as I remember even this roadmap was limited to lenses.

It would mean

(1) too much competitive disadvantage (asymmetry of information) and

(2) too much inflexibility in a fast changing market with the demand to adjust plans quickly probably leading to a perception of unreliability on consumers site

to make roadmaps public.

[ddp]

If I recall, there was outcry when the DMR was released from the M users - you know, to the tune of "Where's our M solution?" "Epson is winning." "Where's our M solution?" And my personal favorite - "Where's our M solution?"

 

No....you're all right. It's a ghost ship and we're sailing into the void.

[R10dreamer]

Whinning?? Pascal, you act like Leica is doing US a favor by being in business and that we should appreciate their good work. BS. We are the customer and they make money only if they have a "customer base". Customer bases are built by many things but one of them is definitely not - leave your customer base without a product. Digital is here to stay and unless Leica comes out with an R10 pretty darn soon they will lose their entire SLR market. That's a lot of pissed off people.

 

I have a lot of money tied up in Leica equipment. I love Leica glass and I actually love the R8 and R9 but that is equivalent to loving an abacus over a computer. How many abacuses are made these days? Film is dieing a quick death. Not Leica's fault but it is a reality. Discontinuing the DMR and not replacing it with a digital solution (R10) is tantamount to taking that abacus to college while all of the competition brings their computers. They will lose and if they lose your M8's will fall right behind them.

 

If Leica thinks that they are doing their customers a favor they are so far gone I will be forced to give up on them. Not because I want to but because they just can't or won't compete in the market today as it exists.

[abrewer]

It's a ghost ship and we're sailing into the void.

 

:D

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Looks like we may have a collectors item on our hands. Geez we actually may recoup what we paid. :D

 

Folks i have NO doubt in my mind something is coming just the what ,where and when is the question.

[Riley]

my bet is the Pinhole Leica

lenses made out of air !

[ddp]

If Leica thinks that they are doing their customers a favor they are so far gone I will be forced to give up on them. Not because I want to but because they just can't or won't compete in the market today as it exists.

 

Alrighty...this isn't bashing the R line - but how competitive has been in the last ten years? Canon has dominated more or less since they put those cute little motors in their white lenses. Nikon lost decent market share from the early 90's on....and it's been a leapfrog game ever since. I can't recall seeing any R system bodies or lenses when I've covered press or sporting in events in various venues. I've seen the occasional M shooter, that's about it. What were the worldwide totals for the DMR? And does it's discontinuation mean its a dead system?

 

Leica is on a different plane than these guys - pure & simple. If anything, their glass is getting noticed on full frame DSLR's due to the high quality. That's not such a bad thing. But if the bread and butter is with the M line....well, by golly, normal thinking would dictate that you focus on your core product.

 

There's plenty of us rangefinder lunatics wandering through the asylum it appears.....

[Riley]

so ummm

 

whats the difference between Leica glass on a Canon

and the unAF R system ?

[james_h]

what has not been pointed out is, the other manufacturers representatives that come here. Be sure that they do, I know I would....

 

 

Of course one step on from that thought is that they post too....

 

There are one or two who would suggest that we should sell now and 'invest' elsewhere.

You have to wonder where the logic is in that choice and who has most to gain.

 

If one had to jump ship before the R10 arrives (and I have no doubt there will be one) all it would take is an R adaptor. You could drive into any city and pick up a temporary replacement from C or N.

 

It's fair to say that most Leica R users have tried the rest and they want the best.

Anything else is a backward step and who does that...?

 

 

Just my 2 penneth.

 

Regards

Jim

[Riley]

i really really doubt C&N would involve themselves in that

that sort of speak is all over forums everywhere

more often than not, they seem to own a canon

usually, they dont know what theyre talking about

 

the occasional sales assistant gets involved too

they usually claim to own something they dont

it becomes obvious after awhile, and a little old

[xrogers]

If Leica thinks that they are doing their customers a favor they are so far gone I will be forced to give up on them. Not because I want to but because they just can't or won't compete in the market today as it exists.

 

I don't expect Leica is at all happy about discontinuing the DMR.

 

It seems likely that Leica's original contract with Imacon has ended, and that Hasselblad is uninterested in continuing any relationship with Leica (other than a competative relationship). It also seems likely that needing a competitor's support to develop firmware is at least in part to blame for the lack of a timely DMR upgrade. With the past two years of Leica R&D going into the M8, even if an R10 was well underway, it wouldn't be here for at least a year.

 

I don't think Leica believes they are doing their customers a favor by not having a digital R solution. I'm sure they are hoping their customer base for a digital SLR will either already have a DMR, or will work with film until an R10 is ready.

 

I certainly hope Jenoptik stays friendly.

 

Clyde Rogers

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Hallo,

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