uroman Posted August 5, 2011 Share #1 Posted August 5, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have an M9 and the 35 summarit and 50 zeiss f/2 I need a lower-light option, for shooting at 1.4 or so I am willing to buy the new summilix 50, but cant find it anywhere is the nokton 1.1 a good option for this? It would be indoor low light shots, and f/1.1 isnt as important to me, as 1.4. In other words, I would not have to rely on the focus at 1.1, rather more like 1.4. The zeiss at f/2 is too slow Any thoughts? I dont see alot of other options. I dont want to buy the nokton and deal with focus issues - as who in the heck do you send the lens to, for calibration???!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 Hi uroman, Take a look here Low light option in current market - nokton?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted August 5, 2011 Share #2 Posted August 5, 2011 I have no personal experience of the Nokton, but of other CV lenses. Most of these have had serious problems with decentering. People say that you should try several specimens and select a good one. This presumes (a) that the dealer has several on stock or ( can find them for you, and © that he is a saintly fellow with great concern for his customers. The last does probably mean that he has gone bankrupt. Other reports, which I find technically credible, to say the least, is that you will have focusing problems with any Nokton because of focus shift when stopping the lens down. Another option, though this does presume a good dose of luck, is to find a v.2 ('pre-ASPH') 50mm Summicron, the one that was current from 1962 to 2004. This one I know well and while not state of the art, it is a charming and perfectly useful lens. The old man from the Spherical Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted August 5, 2011 Share #3 Posted August 5, 2011 Have you considered the Zeiss 50mm C-Sonnar f1.5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theno23 Posted August 5, 2011 Share #4 Posted August 5, 2011 I have the Nokton 1.1, I bought it to use as a fast 50 while I was waiting for a 50 Summilux about a year ago, still waiting... It's an OK lens, bit soft wide open, and has odd shaped highlights, but at 1.4 it's really not bad. I don't have any focus shift problems with it in practice, and it has decent contrast and flare resistance. I find myself using it more often than my Version 3 rigid Summicron, despite the size and weight - it's not a small lens. Example photo: Thames Seagulls (L1003197) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! And some more: Flickr: Search swh's photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uroman Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted August 5, 2011 I guess the issue is to get the nokton (from cameraquest), or to get a 20 year old summilux in fine condition... hmmmm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted August 5, 2011 Share #6 Posted August 5, 2011 Many of us have the Zeiss 50 f/1.5 Sonnar while we wait for a Summilux 50. I am so pleased with mine that I may not keep the Summilux when it arrives and opt instead for a different focal length for my kit. There are several threads here that go into this fine lens in detail. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/146809-carl-zeiss-50mm-f-1-5-a.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted August 5, 2011 Share #7 Posted August 5, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I might recommend both the 1,1/50 Nokton and 1,5/50 Sonnar ZM. I've written reviews on both, if you're interested: 1,1/50 Nokton 1,5/50 Sonnar ZM These lenses both get a bit of a bad rep on the forums, but if you take the time to try one yourself, you might be (very) pleasantly surprised. I really like both of them, despite their minor "flaws." If you want perfection, sure - go for a 1,4/50 Summilux ASPH. But be prepared to spend a lot of money and wait a long time. If you don't need the speed, the 2/50 Planar ZM is a very good alternative that's also fantastic, albeit slower than you might want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 5, 2011 Share #8 Posted August 5, 2011 It is only a stop or two. Change your technique and save $11000,USD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 5, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 5, 2011 It is only a stop or two. Change your technique and save $11000,USD. Hi Pico Yes but getting an asph lux is difficult, a f/1.5 Nokton is probably better in every department, except size and weight and close focus, than the pre asph lux. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 5, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 5, 2011 I had a Nokton f1.1 while waiting for a new Summilux to arrive and it was a great lens. I honestly don't know where all the prejudice comes from with comments about focus shift and softnesss. Its almost like people read the review of one CV lens then cut and paste it into another. It focused accurately and didn't have any appreciable aperture related focus shift that I could find. It was slightly soft wide open, but so is a Noctilux and so is a Summilux. I would say that at f1.4 it was sharper than my new Summilux. Whats not so good about it? Well I found that f1.1 was a party trick aperture, nice for a couple of pictures but the novelty soon tapered off. The lens is a big brute but not that bad to handle. And the out of focus areas could be good, or harsh, but it really depended on the lighting, whereas the Summilux is mellow at all times. Yes the build quality of CV lenses can let a good design down, so it may be more difficult getting a good one. Other than that if I really needed a very very fast lens, faster than a Summilux, I'd go for the Nokton again. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 5, 2011 Share #11 Posted August 5, 2011 Hi Pico Yes but getting an asph lux is difficult, a f/1.5 Nokton is probably better in every department, except size and weight and close focus, than the pre asph lux. Noel Noel, I have not used the lens you mention, so honestly I cannot comment. I have used the Canon f/.95 (three of them) and find the inadequate. So I withdraw my opinion. My pardon. Pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 5, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 5, 2011 Noel, I have not used the lens you mention, so honestly I cannot comment. I have used the Canon f/.95 (three of them) and find the inadequate. So I withdraw my opinion. My pardon. Pico Hi Pico Your comments are probably ok... The super speeds from the 50s were all statement lenses with iffy performance, e.g. the Canon f/1.2 and /0.95. The preasph type II from '62 is only a little later and is similar to a Canon f/1.4. The asph lux and the (asph) Nokton f/1.5 are both from this century, pig to get an asph lux. If you can make do with f/2 (or f/2.5) it is a better choice. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Lummes Posted August 5, 2011 Share #13 Posted August 5, 2011 I've used Nokton 50/1.1 since January. It is totally fine for me and adequate on film, but some things disturb me with digital. Bokeh is not fine in critical settings, get some foliage in the background and you'll see. For me the show stopper is usually that 1m minimum focus distance, but then, that is quite common with fast lenses. Any how I'm definitely saving for lux asph too for all the good it offers, easily visible even on fast film. Nokton does have focus shift at close distances, but I never stop it down actually. Using curves and careful sharpening in post can make a big difference with the kind of aberrations and low contrast it has. The quality of workmanship is superb, focusing feel on my sample is better than in any of my Leica lenses or my friends new Nokti. Here is an early set of "test" pictures. Bad bokeh (front is fine, back not) is often visible. I use quite a lot of sharpening with it most of the time. https://picasaweb.google.com/jonte.knif/Nokton#slideshow/5569756930908353250 Unfortunately I seem to have deleted the focus shift series I made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted August 5, 2011 Share #14 Posted August 5, 2011 I own a 50mm Summilux ASPH and 50mm CV Nokton 1.1. I also owned a Noctilux 1.0, which I parted with. The Nokton is a very good lens for its price. As others have noted, its bokeh can be smooth or jarring, depending on lighting. It doesn't compare directly with the Summilux in that regard, understandably, as it costs one quarter the price of the Lux. Nonetheless, I don't think you'd be disappointed with it. Build quality on mine is excellent and it exhibits virtually no focus shift. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uroman Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted August 5, 2011 focus shift - could someone explain what that is, and how one adjusts to it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted August 5, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 5, 2011 focus shift - could someone explain what that is, and how one adjusts to it? Some fast lenses are optimized to be clearly focused at the fastest aperture. As you move down from F1.1 to F2.8 for instance... the camera will tell you that you are in focus but in reality it may be focusing further or closer... thus our of focus. A lens like the new 35mm "floating lens element" corrects this as a lens moves as you stop down to correct the shifting. Some people who really know their camera/lens combo nudge the focus a little to compensate for the shifting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted August 5, 2011 Share #17 Posted August 5, 2011 Sold my Nokton 1.1.. I'm more in line with KR on this one than Steve Huff. Just an opinion from experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted August 5, 2011 Share #18 Posted August 5, 2011 A good performer at f1.1, but profound focus shift at close range til about f5.6 when the DOF swallows it up. Most buy it to use wide open, where it's a bargain - stopped down for portraits etc it's a liability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted August 6, 2011 Share #19 Posted August 6, 2011 It is only a stop or two. Change your technique and save $11000,USD. It is not possible to 'change your technique' in order to stop normal movement in your subjects, nor to obtain thinner DOF. And you must be thinking of the Noctilux, which no-one mentioned, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 6, 2011 Share #20 Posted August 6, 2011 Since you haven't specified a particular focal length I suggest that you consider the CV 35/1.2 Nokton too. I can only comment on the one I have of course but I've not noticed focus shift if it's there, it's very good even wide open, has its own character, is comparatively inexpensive, and few people have anything bad to say about it other than it's a little bulky. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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