My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[jaapv]

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Maybe unrelated but interesting I purchased a few Korean 4Gb cards for my DMR. They functioned quite welluntil I tried to format them.That will hang the camera for a battery-out reset. I can format them on my MAC all right, but even then the DMR will take over five minutes for a format.

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[steelduck]

Sometimes in the last few weeks my M9, especially if you have it on uncompressed DNG plus JPEG fine, can take a very long time to empty the buffer after a burst on continuous (typically taking 2 series of 5 braketed images) . I mean 2 or 3 minutes. It is not consistent and other times will empty the buffer in around 30 seconds. At first I too thought it was locking up but if I just left it the buffer cleared. However, not all the images are there and there are file numbers with null contents. There is something not right. I did not notice this on any of the beta softwares but have noticed this a few times since 1.162.

 

Wilson

 

Like this, but without the pressing of the play? It has happened to me also.

 

‪Leica M9 Memory Write Failure‬‏ - YouTube

[erlingmm]

I experienced this too, 4 GB Sandisk card (Extreme SDHC 30 MB/s) about half full, took a quick sequence of 5-6 pictures, probably pressed Play because I sensed it took a long time to store and nothing came up on LCD. DNG compressed only. Had to take out battery, no pictures stored from this sequence. New M9-P. Have not been able to make it happen again, although I made a couple of attempts, but have changed SD card.

[Robert_M]

I think the USB port is there for Leica manufacture and service diagnostic purposes mostly. Best practice as has been mentioned here again and again is to remove card and use a reader.

 

 

I cannot accept that was Leica's intent. They clearly put instructions in the M9 manual for using the USB port and even provide 2 modes of use (in the screen menu) to allow use with different computer devices. I have not seen any official Leica instructions that say the USB port is for Leica Service and Manufacture.

 

Again, I don't use the feature. I just asked questions to understand statements being made. I don't think it helps that this forum generates statements which rationalize a weak point (to some, not to me). It has the appearance of re-writing the design specs to fit the product outcome.

 

 

RM

[pop]

This is a most difficult and - for some - also a most depressing topic. It becomes quite apparent that - as an intermittent failure - it is fiendishly hard to track.

 

I rather suspect that what we're discussing here might be several distinct problems, none of which seems to have arisen while the camera was still being designed.

 

Likely causes seem to be:

• Electrical problems (failure of electrical contact)
  
• Problem with the voltage of the camera's power supply
  
• different interpretations of the specifications of the cards by the card manufacturer and the M9 programmers
  
• suboptimal handling by the computer's software (writing, erasing, formatting)
  
• user error
  

 

Mind you - most of the problems mentioned by M8 and M9 users are explicable by one or just few of the possible causes above. None of the causes will explain all of the reported problems. Hence my suspicion that we're discussing different causes.

[k-hawinkler]

This is a most difficult and - for some - also a most depressing topic. It becomes quite apparent that - as an intermittent failure - it is fiendishly hard to track.

 

I rather suspect that what we're discussing here might be several distinct problems, none of which seems to have arisen while the camera was still being designed.

 

Likely causes seem to be:

• Electrical problems (failure of electrical contact)
  
• Problem with the voltage of the camera's power supply
  
• different interpretations of the specifications of the cards by the card manufacturer and the M9 programmers
  
• suboptimal handling by the computer's software (writing, erasing, formatting)
  
• user error
  

 

Mind you - most of the problems mentioned by M8 and M9 users are explicable by one or just few of the possible causes above. None of the causes will explain all of the reported problems. Hence my suspicion that we're discussing different causes.

 

 

I suggest you amend your list and add:

 

• firmware bug(s) <--- programming error, not user error.

 

K-H.

[jaapv]

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Wouldn't a real firmware bug show up on all cameras without exception?

[pico]

There is enormous potentiality in that USB connection. Leica wlill likely show it future versions,

 

You hackers should take it apart to see.

[delander †]

Isn't there some SD module, complete with circuit board that all camera makers use?

 

Jeff

[ho_co]

Wouldn't a real firmware bug show up on all cameras without exception?

 

It may be there in all cases but not uncovered because the specific conditions haven't occurred yet.

 

IOW, the fact that it can't be duplicated immediately by a certain sequence of button presses doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.

 

It's hard to prove a negative.

 

The fact that a particular M9 hasn't turned into a frog doesn't mean it won't.

[jaapv]

Well, mine is green...

[ho_co]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that thread....

 

FWIW: Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the Leica M8" is at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html.

 

But that thread isn't the source of the warning not to use the USB cable for fear of stressing a main board. As I said above, that admonition may have followed Mark's thread; or I may have inferred it from other sources.

 

The first image at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html#post224638 shows the mounting of the USB connector, but judging from the next two images in that post, it seems to be attached to the rear casting of the camera body, and not directly to the data processing circuit board.

[Robert_M]

FWIW: Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the Leica M8" is at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html.

 

But that thread isn't the source of the warning not to use the USB cable for fear of stressing a main board. That warning may have followed the thread, or I may have inferred it from other sources.

 

Then what is the source of this recommendation? Urban legend? I hope the reader doesn't view me as obsessive to ask silly questions to separate fact from fiction.

 

RM

[k-hawinkler]

It may be there in all cases but not uncovered because the specific conditions haven't occurred yet.

 

IOW, the fact that it can't be duplicated immediately by a certain sequence of button presses doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.

 

It's hard to prove a negative.

 

The fact that a particular M9 hasn't turned into a frog doesn't mean it won't.

 

 

Howard,

 

Thank you so much.

After awhile I find it unproductive for me to repeat the arguments.

So again, thank you for stating the case, as I see it as well, so clearly.

 

It's interesting that in this very merged thread is evidence that the M8, M8.2, and the M9 are suffering from similar things. My M9 is robust, including my memory card - for as long as I don't do certain things with it - described extensively before as you have admonished me about stating it too often. No problem, I got the message.

 

It appears to be a tough intermittent problem.

 

As you know, one can only lead a horse to water, it has to drink by itself. You can't make it!

If somebody doesn't want to get what the problem appears to be, I certainly can't make them see it.

 

Again, whatever it is, Leica has to make a dedicated effort to remedy this untenable situation soon.

I hope the M10 won't be afflicted with the same disease.

 

Again, thank you so much for your help in this matter.

 

Best, K-H.

[pop]

I suggest you amend your list and add:

 

• firmware bug(s) <--- programming error, not user error.

 

K-H.

 

Yes, that's part of what's implied by the "interpretation".

 

Wouldn't a real firmware bug show up on all cameras without exception?

 

Not if the bug would cause problems only under specific parameters. Think of it like a cross-allergy.

[dwbell]

I now have a completely unscientific and unverified feeling it's to do with soft / descreet mode. I'm also wondering, if my auto-off is set to 1min, which it is, and I get one of the "slow write" occassions as described above then it could well be that the camera auto off's during the writing of several files from the buffer. This is then replicating Jaapv's experience where he physically turned off the camera.

 

All speculation - but until Solms come back with anything that's all I have.

[mpeterdavidson]

Well, there IS a problem here. I too have suffered the 'red blinking light shutdown images lost' phenomenon, with a Sandisk Ultra 8th card, on a M9 bought in May. A card that then manages to work fine on my my little Lumix. And yes it is annoying. Another irritation that while not undermining the pleasure in ergonomics and stellar image quality the M9 undoubtedly delivers, puts a wrinkle in the experience. How can it not? A wrinkle I felt a £5000 price tag was going to protect me from. Sure, this is all just 'anecdotal', but there's a point when even anecdotes achieve critical mass.

[k-hawinkler]

I now have a completely unscientific and unverified feeling it's to do with soft / descreet mode. I'm also wondering, if my auto-off is set to 1min, which it is, and I get one of the "slow write" occassions as described above then it could well be that the camera auto off's during the writing of several files from the buffer. This is then replicating Jaapv's experience where he physically turned off the camera.

 

All speculation - but until Solms come back with anything that's all I have.

 

 

Hi dwbell,

 

I like the way your mind (and your gut feeling as well) works.

 

Please, let me suggest that you and I and others as well make a list of parameters that might be involved in some combination to significantly [order(s) of magnitude] enhance the probability of triggering an M9 malfunction.

 

Then we compare notes and post a joint list.

 

We need to get down to some systematic testing and accurate record keeping.

As the combinatorics increases dramatically with the number of parameters, we want to examine, we need to solicit the help of other forum members to divvy up the work.

 

Best, K-H.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[k-hawinkler]

Here is my list for discussion:

 

• Your M9 is switched off. If you press down the shutter button, does the red LED blink. Please, record Yes or No.

• Firmware: Please record version. 1.162, 1.138, 1.116, 1.002. Is this correct, are there others?

• We should probably only test the newest two versions. Emphasis on the latest version.

 

• Please identify your memory card.

 

M9 parameters that may be involved:

 

• Advance: Standard, Soft, Discreet, Discr & Soft.

• Bracketing setup: No. of exposures: 3,5,7,Sequence: 0/+/-, -,0,+, EV increments: 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 EV. <= Maybe only need to vary No. of exposures.

• Histogram: Standard, RGB, Clipping setup: Off, Overexposure only, Over / underexposure.

• Auto review: Duration: Off, 1s, 3s, 5s, Permanent, Rel.button pressed, Histogram: On, Off.

• Auto power off: 1 min., 2 min., 5 min., 10 min., Off.

• DNG setup: Uncompressed, Compressed.

 

• Compression: DNG, DNG & JPG fine (Probably less interesting to test: JPG fine, JPG basic, DNG & JPG basic)

• Exp. bracketing: Off, On.

 

Operator actions:

 

• Shutter switch set to S or C.

• How many shots fired?

 

While images were being saved to the memory card. Did you:

 

• switch M9 off?

• Press on Play button?

• Turn the wheel, flip through images, zoom in, reposition the zoom area?

• Press any of the directional buttons? Which one(s)?

 

• Also, after approximately how many shots did something go wrong?

• Any other relevant noteworthy observations?

 

Please, record your observations carefully.

 

I would like to suggest that folks, who have encountered problems, repeat and carefully record this time the scenario in which the M9 malfunctioned before.

 

Best, K-H.

[dwbell]

Yes, thank you K_H, I'd encourage and welcome Robert_M to give his input into the debugging attempt.

 

I'm encouraged by the advent of new posters chiming up and letting us know they too have an issue. Thank you to those posters also.

 

And to clarify my position - I love the camera, if we can get to a stage where we say "if you do this then this with this setting it WILL crash" then I'm fine with that. I understand the situation at Leica and I'm not expecting a canon. But this not knowing when or how it will loose shots is unacceptable to me as a photographer.