My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[Venkman]

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Just to confirm that during my current holiday I really got to know that particular problem and have observed that it usualy happens when pressing the view button while the red light is still flashing for saving the images.

The camera then goes into Limbo, the red light keeps flashing and can only be reactivated through battery removal - which then usualy kills all photos from that particular buffer/writing session.

 

I also only recognized the problem since I started to shoot jpg & dng (because I haven't found a decent working dng converter for the iPad so far). During my first DNG only month with the M9, I never noticed any Problem at all.

 

As for the cards - I bought them at Amazon, having confirmed through the customer service that Amazon sources directly at Sandisk.

 

Interesting enough: my M8 can't be bothered at all. Shoot, press play, exact same cards, no problems at all.

 

Dirk

[k-hawinkler]

Just to confirm that during my current holiday I really got to know that particular problem and have observed that it usualy happens when pressing the view button while the red light is still flashing for saving the images.

The camera then goes into Limbo, the red light keeps flashing and can only be reactivated through battery removal - which then usualy kills all photos from that particular buffer/writing session.

 

I also only recognized the problem since I started to shoot jpg & dng (because I haven't found a decent working dng converter for the iPad so far). During my first DNG only month with the M9, I never noticed any Problem at all.

 

As for the cards - I bought them at Amazon, having confirmed through the customer service that Amazon sources directly at Sandisk.

 

Interesting enough: my M8 can't be bothered at all. Shoot, press play, exact same cards, no problems at all.

 

Dirk

 

 

Dirk,

 

Exactly, I have observed this failure mode as well.

 

Best, K-H.

[jaapv]

Neither does the M9 - it appears.

All my memory cards work just fine in my Nikons!!!!!!!!!

After they failed in the M9.

 

There are an awful lot of excuses and red herrings presented on this forum.

 

K-H.

 

The fact that this is the case for you does not prove that that is the case for anybody else. Just like me not having SD card problems does not disprove others. Please let's stop generalizing single cases. It is clear a number of M9s have a problem. It is equally clear that most have not. Rip points out there is a large percentage of fake cards he is NOT negating genuine problems, he is trying to separate the real problems from the rest. It might make more sense to start an inventarisation thread like wiith the cracked sensors.

[k-hawinkler]

Whether it's a fake card or not should make no difference as long as it's compliant with the standard.

I really resent that you continue to state untruths.

If you read the relevant threads you would realize that by far my M9 isn't the only one that suffers this issue.

 

This is my last post in which I respond to your posts on this matter.

 

K-H.

[jaapv]

One untruth please?

 

Whether it's a fake card or not should make no difference as long as it's compliant with the standard.

.

 

K-H.

Aye, and there is the rub...

[steelduck]

Just to confirm that during my current holiday I really got to know that particular problem and have observed that it usualy happens when pressing the view button while the red light is still flashing for saving the images.

The camera then goes into Limbo, the red light keeps flashing and can only be reactivated through battery removal - which then usualy kills all photos from that particular buffer/writing session.

 

 

Dirk

 

This is exactly the issue I have...

[jaapv]

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I am intrigued by these problems, and in a Google search I found that other brands are afflicted as well.

 

 

Coolpix S1: HELP! "This card cannot be used" - Photo.net Nikon Forum

Fix “card cannot be used error in Nikon D70 S | Windows 7 Downloads

Flickr: Discussing card error in NIKON D7000 CAFE

1Ds-Error 02 with Lexar 80X -1GB CF card. ?Cause - Photo.net Canon EOS Forum

Re: 5D Mark II Error Message ? : Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review

Mark III and SD card error - Canon Digital Photography Forums

X-Ways Support Forum: Olympus Smart Media Card giving "CARD ERROR"

Recover Photos From Olympus Mju 550 Camera After XD Card Error

Olympus XD Card error - pictures lost? - Steve's Digicams Forums

 

If you read the threads you'll find a few clones of the posts here

 

It appears to be widespread and it seems that it makes as much sense to ask the card manufacturers to get their act together as it does to tell the camera builders to check their software.

Sony has the least troubles by my search btw.

 

 

But the more interesting thing I found is that they may - I say may!!- be caused by a Trojan virus in the computer used. It may be FUD marketing by the recovery software company where I found it and I doubt that more than a fraction of users would be affected, but it reinforces the advice to lock the card in the reader and format in the camera imo.

[AMR]

Hi guys,

 

I sent to Leica and i had the following reply:

 

 

Kindly check the attachment (last page) there you will find further info to SD-Card Type to use in Leica M9.

In case you are still facing the same problem also with the cards we recommend please keep me updated.

 

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards

 

 

They attached the FAQ file . .

 

 

I replied, many have tried several ones from recommended list and still facing this problem.

 

I'm still waiting for replying back.

[rmclachlan]

I have new M9. The card I am using is a SanDisk Ultra 16gb, the M9 software version is 1.138. I am using DNG format only. Card was formatted by the M9. I took 12 initial test shots which were saved ok and I can review using the Play mode. However all subsequent shots are not being saved. After taking a photo ICANN see it immediately on the display but it does not seem to be saved on the card but as soon as the Plat button is pressed to review the image disappears and the original 12 shots are available for review. Clearly something wrong with either the card or firmware.

[Haich]

I just sent a mail stating my problem with the saving issue. I now have a Transcend 16gb which appears to have solved the issue so far although it's a little early since I've literally only shot about 30 photos with it. I need to take it on a day out and give it a proper test.

[coz]

I have new M9. The card I am using is a SanDisk Ultra 16gb, the M9 software version is 1.138. I am using DNG format only. Card was formatted by the M9. I took 12 initial test shots which were saved ok and I can review using the Play mode. However all subsequent shots are not being saved. After taking a photo ICANN see it immediately on the display but it does not seem to be saved on the card but as soon as the Plat button is pressed to review the image disappears and the original 12 shots are available for review. Clearly something wrong with either the card or firmware.

 

 

 

Maybe try FW 1.162?

[M9reno]

Do any of these problems happen if one transfers the photos through USB (in other words, avoids transfer through an SDHC reader/computer)? I have been experiencing loss of photographs, excessively long buffering periods, corrupted files, and failure to write on the card for the past three weeks.

 

I am wondering if one reliable work-around (hopefully not an indefinite one, until Leica addresses these issues) is simply to stick to USB file transfers...

[steelduck]

Maybe try FW 1.162?

 

I have the 1.162 and the same behavior. Occasionally if I press the view button while the M9 is still writing to the card, the camera hangs for a minute or two. Then it seems to resume working. I can still view the pictures in the preview, but when I power off the camera all those pictures that where in the buffer are lost. They appear 0KB files on the card.

 

ps. USB is not a workaround as the pictures are zero kilobytes on the card already in the camera.

[coz]

I have an M9P arriving tomorrow so I'm a bit nervous about this topic! The dealer suggested Delkin sdhc cards and I bought them. I'm coming from a 5d2 where the CF cards were pretty bullet proof so this is annoying but I think it's a small price to pay.

[k-hawinkler]

Do any of these problems happen if one transfers the photos through USB (in other words, avoids transfer through an SDHC reader/computer)? I have been experiencing loss of photographs, excessively long buffering periods, corrupted files, and failure to write on the card for the past three weeks.

 

I am wondering if one reliable work-around (hopefully not an indefinite one, until Leica addresses these issues) is simply to stick to USB file transfers...

 

 

No, in my experience the damage is done before transferring the images to a computer.

 

Best, K-H.

[andybarton]

I have an M9P arriving tomorrow so I'm a bit nervous about this topic! The dealer suggested Delkin sdhc cards and I bought them. I'm coming from a 5d2 where the CF cards were pretty bullet proof so this is annoying but I think it's a small price to pay.

 

This is the problem with the internet. A problem that affects a very small number of people, suddenly appears to be a very big problem. When it actually it probably isn't. It's upsetting if it happens to you, but the chances are that it won't.

 

Witness the cracked sensor problem from 18 months ago. Anyone would think that every M9 was a basket-case and about to go TU at any moment, when, in fact, the problem affected one batch of sensors and relatively few owners, given the number of M9s sold.

 

Enjoy your new camera when it arrives tomorrow and may I wish you many happy years of trouble-free shooting.

[jaapv]

YES!! I've managed to provoke the behaviour. The following way:

Fill the buffer on C. When the camera starts writing hit "play"and then switch off the camera. All files written after pushing play will be empty.The next shots will be normal again.I have Autoreview switched off.

Now I only need to figure out a real-world shooting situation where I would do this...

[coz]

This is the problem with the internet. A problem that affects a very small number of people, suddenly appears to be a very big problem. When it actually it probably isn't. It's upsetting if it happens to you, but the chances are that it won't.

 

Witness the cracked sensor problem from 18 months ago. Anyone would think that every M9 was a basket-case and about to go TU at any moment, when, in fact, the problem affected one batch of sensors and relatively few owners, given the number of M9s sold.

 

Enjoy your new camera when it arrives tomorrow and may I wish you many happy years of trouble-free shooting.

 

 

 

I agree % wise it's very small. Thanks I'm excited!

[k-hawinkler]

I tend to agree with K-H that a more scientific approach is needed to the problem. It seems to me that the discussion here is like addiction (or other crisis): The first step is admitting that there is a problem!

 

I have used many cards on my M9 since I tend to use the cards on a long travel excursion similar to how I'd use a roll of film. Although I download to a computer each day, I also keep the card as backup until I get home. Thus, I use many cards. Cards I have used for years on other cameras (canon) have worked fine. Sandisk (Ultra II) and Kingston. I bought some new Sandisk Ultra cards for a Spring trip and encountered problems similar to described by others here. I am 99% sure it is not the cards. Two Ultra Sandisk 8 GB cards had problems at EXACTLY the same frame/file number on the cards. Recently I had a new Sandisk Ultra 16 GB card have problems at exactly the same (file 5) time that another poster listed in another thread.

 

Before the usual responses come up, let me pre-empt with answers:

- No they are not bad cards, nor are they fake cards. All these cards are bought from big retailers. Newegg, Bestbuy, and OfficeDepot. You would have to fool some large retail buyers to pass off fakes on these big retailers. They are in a position to buy direct from Sandisk.

- Yes, the card contacts are clean. I even know how to build cryogenic detectors and have operated in a real "clean room". I know what clean means!

- Yes, I format in the M9 first.

 

This is not a unique problem. I have seen other devices in the last 5 years which were very sensitive to the exact card. The Palm Lifedrive is a good example. Retrofits of CF cards to the memory were very sensitive to the exact series of Sandisk cards, not just the card label. I could provide more details and links if one wants.

 

We should bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter. The Leica M9 software/firmware has a problem with interfacing to SD cards and Leica should address the issue. Look at this rationally:

- Do other cameras need specific cards?

- There is an industry standard which SD cards must meet, even the alleged fake cards meet. This is no excuse that the card does not work in a device designed for SD cards.

- There is no reliable list of restricted cards from Leica that will work since the manufacturers of the cards do change production runs and manufacturing sources.

 

My personal conclusion is that the problems are related to format issues in the card. Like disk drives, the innards of these cards are grouped in sectors and tracks. A Sandisk Ultra II 8 GB from 3 years ago does not necessarily have the same layout as a Sandisk Ultra 8 GB from current production. And, they may not behave the same if the firmware to read them does not account for these changes. The responsibility lies with the device using the SD card (ie Leica). Don't just blame the cards!

 

And, I agree that the work around discussion is not a satisfactory solution.

- "Don't fill the SD card" - Think about that. Is it necessary for any other device that you use with an SD card? Actually I do use this solution for some cards on the M9 but it is not satisfactory.

- "buy many cards, then stick to the one card you find which works" - No comment. This is as ridiculous as it sounds.

 

I'll refrain from further ranting. I really like the M9. For my applications, it is the best camera I've ever used. But, I'm not afraid to admit that there serious issues that need addressed. The SD card problems are really serious and Leica should address this with high priority.

 

RM

 

 

 

K-H,

 

Just to add some more facts to my experience: My card problems have occurred with both the old firmware (ca last April) and the new firmware update. I have not seen a change, but I also have not experimented to elicit a change in the problem. The problems are hard to reproduce without spending a lot of time taking images, filling the card, and monitoring the behavior. The firmware does not appear to handle the SD cards correctly. But I'm not convinced that the latest firmware upgrade has changed anything.

 

For those wanting to understand more, there is a good summary of SD and SDHC card info at Secure Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

 

I do have to wonder if some of the issues are related to the industry changing from SD to SDHC standards. Has anyone had any problems with an SD card (as opposed to a SDHC card). Standard SD cards only went to 2 GB. (There were some with special tweaks to 4 GB, but we should ignore those since they may have other issues of their own).

 

Did the earliest versions of the M8 use only SD cards or did they also take SDHC cards? Someone please educate me since I have never handled an M8. Thanks.

 

RM

 

 

 

Hi Robert,

 

I didn't mean to ignore you. Also, many thanks for your detailed descriptions.

Despite interference by Leica fan boys and trolls, we actually might get our point across.

You are correct in stating, quote: " The first step is admitting that there is a problem! "

 

I have described some of my experiences with my M9 before. Please, see here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/174378-intermittent-m9-lcd-navigation-malfunction.html and here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/187415-m9-1-162-firmware-bug-just.html.

 

I got my M9 on December 30, 2009. Also early on I got a number of black images when shooting a 7-shot bracket. And after the latest firmware update, my M9 corrupted one Leica recommended memory card. It's fine now after reformatting first in my MacBook Pro and then in my M9 with Overwrite.

 

Here is the main point of this post.

 

I don't think Leica can any longer ignore the described firmware bugs. They have a choice.

 

• They can either amend their M9 user manual, out-lawing all legitimate activities that might cause problems, and effectively turning a bug into an M9 camera feature.

 

• Or, they can treat this as an opportunity to, once and for all, address these issues, including for future cameras like the M10.

 

 

Here in Los Alamos one meets many interesting people. I once had the opportunity to talk for hours on end to a gentleman who at the time was the Public Affairs Director at the Lab. In his previous career, he was in charge of the Public Affairs Department, United States Air Force Europe. His view of the world was pretty simple. There are only two types of companies, those which already had public relations nightmares, and those which will have them in the future.

 

In any case, as many companies have found out, it's best to get ahead of the curve, acknowledge the problem, and vigorously address it. I hope Leica has learned from their previous problems and will do just that.

 

I certainly wish Leica well in doing so.

 

Best, K-H.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[k-hawinkler]

Maybe we should all start emailing Leica with factual information on the behavior of cards and the problems. I am not encouraged that the first response is denial of a problem. There is an issue and it should be addressed.

 

Could we PLEASE drop this non-sense about corrupt cards and fake cards. I have yet to hear that these alleged "errand" cards do not work in other devices (cameras, computers, MP3 players, etc). Can someone tell me if there are issues with any cards in the Leica X1? I have not handled that camera and don't know. Educate me.

 

Again, I refer people to do some research on other information available. I've already listed a wikipedia article above which is a good summary of the SD cards and differences with SDHC cards. I will note a particular, relevant quote in that article,

 

"The communication protocols for the SDHC/SDXC/SDIO families are slightly different from those of the established SD family, which has caused older host devices to not recognize the newer card families. When an SDHC or SDXC card is inserted into an older SD host device, it shouldn't cause any physical or electrical damage to either the card or host device, though the host device won't be able to recognize the card. Some older host devices don't correctly handle 2 GB and/or 4 GB SD cards since they use larger blocks. Most incompatibility issues can be resolved with a firmware update, but unfortunately vendors rarely correct issues in older host devices."

 

The fact is that the M8 started as a SD only protocol. I can accurately guess that the update to include SDHC cards involved a modification of the existing code (that is just how computer programming works). So I logically ask, is the source of the problem in that changeover in protocol and code? Again, I ask, does anyone know of ANY problems with SD cards as opposed to SDHC cards? This is a logical question to ask. And, it is a logical path to pursue in tracking down the problem.

 

 

To continue my own investigation into the problem, I used some Linux utilities (under Ubuntu) to look at my various SDHC and SD cards used on the M9. I also did some benchmark read speed testing. I could not really find any differences in the new and older Sandisk cards (the older ones have been flawless and the newer ones have caused problems - see above posts). Same with the Kingston card. Interesting to note that the cards are rated at lower speed (15 MB/s) than they test out to be in a benchmark read test (20 MB/s). Another indication of authentic cards. It is unlikely that an imitation card would claim lower performance than actually delivered, but that would be the policy from reliable firms. I have note yet found the right utility/application to delve into block sizes, internal ID's, etc. I'll keep trying.

 

BTW, just for information, the Leica M9 formats the cards as Win95 version of FAT32. Yes, you all knew it was FAT32. And, it is another red herring to dwell on where the card was formatted. Formatting in a computer or the camera should work if done as FAT32. All that matters is that the camera will correctly, and conveniently, add the volume label as "Leica M9". If you format in the computer, you will have to assign the proper volume label manually. However, I do recommend formatting in the camera for convenience and consistency. Don't know about you, but we all make errors in the computer when given choices and being in a hurry. The lack of choices in the camera assure that the format is correct.

 

 

RM

 

 

Robert,

 

Thanks again for another excellent post I agree with.

 

Best, K-H.