otto.f Posted June 18, 2011 Share #81 Posted June 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really wonder what it is that brings out this extreme in people when it comes to Leica. Yes like with anything we have a continuous distribution of people that range from hating everything about the camera to loving everything. The extreme positions seem to be very over represented for some reason. What is it that makes Leica specifically the target of such unconditional love & hate? The price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Hi otto.f, Take a look here M9 in the Field.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Peter H Posted June 18, 2011 Share #82 Posted June 18, 2011 have to agree with Charles folks.... for a meandering jaunt with time to contemplate and compose, the M9 is a perfect companion....... for crap conditions with the need to snatch numerous shots under quickly changing circumstances, it aint...... having said that Charles didn't mention anything about the actual photos he took and whether he was pleased with them..... maybe the pain was actually worthwhile ... I wouldn't presume to criticise his superb photography. But quite often photographers have to sacrifice image quality for convenience and reliability. And this is perfectly reasonable when your living depends on getting the shot. And the quality differences may well be very small anyway. All photography involves compromise - the trick is in finding the best compromise for your circumstances. Its not just amateur v pro, we all have different objectives and priorities. And that's why its very interesting and instructive to learn about other people's experiences and opinions, but probably not wise to look there for universal truths, or to fight over which opinion is more correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
denoir Posted June 18, 2011 Share #83 Posted June 18, 2011 The price Possibly, but the Canon 1DsIII costs as much, and the Nikon D3X even more, and you don't see such emotional arguments concerning them... I suppose it's because Leica has in modern times gotten a reputation as a luxury item - fueled by the onslaught of various excessively priced cosmetic special editions. And of course it doesn't help that a certain part of the user base buy it as a luxury item rather than a photographic tool (see the 'should I buy an M9 or a Rolex' thread for a stomach turning example). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 18, 2011 Share #84 Posted June 18, 2011 Leica got its reputation as the penultimate photo journalism camera ... Penultimate means next to last. Apparently the M9 is maintaining that reputation among some here. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
denoir Posted June 18, 2011 Share #85 Posted June 18, 2011 Yes, not precisely the word I wanted to use. I blame the spell checker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 18, 2011 Share #86 Posted June 18, 2011 ... But there is something of a repeating pattern here: a highly accomplished pro photographer with many years experience with Leica writes about a bad experience with the digital M. He gets criticized by *some* people who have never done photography for a living, are in an entirely different line of work, have no web site or work online, have no apparent photography credentials, and have no comparable performance needs for the camera. Likely end result: highly accomplished pro photographer with many years experience with Leica never returns to the forum. Thus, the forum loses out. His critics win. Okay, fair enough. Let's step back a bit ... this is the Leica Users Forum, which means that many of those here bought the M9 camera and seem to like it for what ever application they saw fit. What are they supposed to do, throw their own experience and affection for the camera in the trash because one "pro" complains about it? Two? Ten? What number must be reached before we dump this piece of crap that seems to work for us? I personally don't care if 10,000 complained ... the camera works for me and I do not mind saying so ... repeatedly if necessary. Even if one agrees with some or all of the stuff, what are we supposed to do about it ... take up a forum collection and refund his money? I suggested he speak directly to Leica management ... which is still the best course of action IMO. He asked for insights and ideas and got them ... you don't agree with some of the questions people asked, or observations they made (mostly early on), because the OP is a pro and somehow beyond reproach. I personally don't know him from Adam, and wasn't there when he had his difficulties ... were you? If he was so 100% sure it was all the camera, then why come here and ask for insights and ideas? If he's 100% right, and really didn't want insights and ideas, then what good does it do to even post here? Is this thread supposed to alter the course of Leica because they are ignorant about their product. Really? Is Leica that ignorant and out of touch? Fact is, Pros make mistakes and goofy choices more frequently than most can imagine. As an Art Director/Creative Director that's been on thousands of shoots I've witnessed them first hand. Not to say that's the case here, but to expect every one to embrace any statement whether counter to their own experiences or not is asking a lot of human nature. If the OP can't look past a few outrageous remarks to glean the informative responses, never to return, then he must be pretty unfamiliar with the internet. Talk to Leica ... go directly to the horse's mount and ignore the horse's rear end. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2011 Share #87 Posted June 19, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Charles - just wanted to thank you for posting and tell you that I love your work.Please do take the advice of the previous poster and talk directly to Leica management - they will value your constructive criticism. Keep safe. Just like the others I respect your work, Charles! You see from our reactions: " A big magazine pj, a big magazine pj, how exciting!" that the advise here, which may have never occured to you before, has good chances of success. Amateurs like me don't care, where the input for better Ms comes from and yours will be heard imo. Please be safe and keep up your good work! Best, Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Verrips Posted June 19, 2011 Share #88 Posted June 19, 2011 Sorry to read that it did not met your expectations. But, it would be wise to prepare yourself better if you arae going to buy a new camerasystem for your profession and going to use it instant in a warzone. Reading the internet would be a good preparation and maybe ask some collegues (if there are Leica Pro warphotographers) about their experiences. Maybe a Nikon/Canon does suit your needs better than Leica, because they make new cameramodels every 6 months so they can have more R&D tested in reallife. Preparation is the most important thing, buying expensive stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico.pocopagni Posted June 19, 2011 Share #89 Posted June 19, 2011 Hello all, After reading all the complaints (not just this one) about the many malfunctions of the Leica M9, I feel myself miracled: mine has always worked and it actually works flawlessly. I find a bit strange that quality criteria in Leica are so loose to allow marketing so many faulty machines, apparently more than those which, like mine, properly operate according to specifications. Greetings. Enrico Pocopagni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted June 19, 2011 Share #90 Posted June 19, 2011 Be happy ! Most likely: it IS faulty, but you just didn´t realize it ... best GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2011 Share #91 Posted June 19, 2011 . go directly to the horse's mount and ignore the horse's rear end. -Marc Nominated for " Remark of the week" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted June 19, 2011 Share #92 Posted June 19, 2011 Charles, Hi, I would have thought the M9 would be perfect for your White House shoots. I am surprised. Thinking unobtrusive design would mean shots you ordinarily could miss with cameras that SCREAM - look out, Paparazzi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 19, 2011 Share #93 Posted June 19, 2011 Charles, Hi, I would have thought the M9 would be perfect for your White House shoots. I am surprised. Thinking unobtrusive design would mean shots you ordinarily could miss with cameras that SCREAM - look out, Paparazzi? Good point! Charles is disappointed that he missed a decisive moment. We all do, with all sorts of cameras. And he missed Obama with closed eyes. But if you look at Charles' site you'll find a top-phote of *one* decisive moment: Hillary Clinton with Obama in the background with closed eyes leaning against the wall. Telling a great story. The thing is that if you hit something to a great success with a camera of brand A and you have a history of success (and in the meantime forgotten failures) with that brand and you start anew with brand B you are inclined to get obsessed with the lapses made with B. But it is not a right comparison because your history with brand B is shorter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico.pocopagni Posted June 19, 2011 Share #94 Posted June 19, 2011 Wow! Faulty in a very ingenious way! Best. Enrico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted June 30, 2011 Share #95 Posted June 30, 2011 Charles is right. Batteries, frame lines, turn on delay, rear screen, and indeed the white balance which is every time different...and so on. He did not even mentioned the ISO issue, and the slowness of the camera. It's what I wrote here several times: the M9 is a camera for amateurs. Not for professionals who have to work quick, and can't spend too much time in post processing, which is indeed necessary if you have a M9. I worked with several M's. Since Leica went digital most of its advantages are gone. Sure, it is small, light, and the lenses are great ( but not that greater as for example Zeiss lenses, or equal). But the camera? Indeed, often a pain in the ass. I missed several pictures because of the slow buffer, while others just went on, I always have to spend more time on pp, until you get so tired of it that you decide not to use it any longer. For professionals who have to work each day in several light conditions, who have to work fast sometimes, who have to pp quick before they send their work to the agencies, newspapers or magazines, the Leica is no longer the right tool. not a professional at all, but I find the manual focus much faster for many types of pictures. I mean on a good day, I can set it to f5.6 or above and can even use the distance scale on the lens to focus. Sometimes, I don't even need to look through the viewfinder to get the subject well within parameters of view. I never have had an OOF pic with Leica, whereas I have a few with Nikon and Canon. Also the shutter noise, at least compared to a D700 or 5Dii is much lower, great when discretion is needed. I just find in certain circumstances its much faster to use then a DSLR. In others, its slower, and in others, with both fast moving subjects orthogonal to the camera and in low light, much more difficult then a DSLR. Some guy just posted in dpreview that he had reached 1.1 million pictues with his D700 and was as perfect as when he bought it. Some other "pros" complained that their 5D sensor fell off the mount due to "glue failure". You can be lucky and unlucky. Its horses for courses. If I want a carry around or travel camera, the M8/M9 is unbeatable. If I want to take pics of bands at gigs then its the D700 or D7000 at ISO 3200 or 6400. I find it extraordinary that someone would buy a new untried camera for a professional assignment without any testing. Personally, I would recommend you take it around for some amateur work and see if you can learn to love its unique foibles, like I do. Otherwise sell it. You are unlikely to loose more then 20% of its value. Feel free to PM me with a quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted July 2, 2011 Share #96 Posted July 2, 2011 Leica recommends the Extreme Pro and makes no claims for other SD cards. I received the same recommendation (i.e. Sandisk Extreme cards) from Leica Allendale just recently. These are 30 MB/sec cards which, at least theoretically, should be overkill as the M9 camera-to-card writing speed appears to be 18MB/sec. Could someone confirm the latter? T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5156246 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #97 Posted July 2, 2011 Hi, my experience with Leica M9 photography: I had a fully equipped Nikon setup, and yes it was easy to quickly make a lot of pictures. And lots of them were good. End of 2010 I switched - completely - to Leica: M9, Summilux 50, Summilux 21, Summicron 90 and one light tripod plus 3 batteries. Nothing more. 2,5 kg of weight! I then went 4 weeks to India and took about 5000 images. I could keep about 3000 pictures, which is a very impressive ratio for me, usually < 10% of my images are that good and sellable. India was dusty, noisy, dirty and a real challenge for my gear. Not a single problem. I do not know why, but I have never taken so many beautiful and vivid pictures before. The M9 never failed, I realize that it takes some time to switch on. I do not know why, but this was never a problem for me, neither the preview. There is a 1 second automatic preview setting but I hardly judge my pictures on the built in screen, it is just a quick see if the settings are OK. Thus - at least from my point of view - the M9 is the ideal camera setup, I am absolutely satisfied. A lot of the pictures are ready for sale through agencies right out of the box. That said - I do not care about all my old camera stuff anymore, sometimes I just take a walk with M9+Summilux 50 and know that the images will be very high quality. The M9 is of course not suitable for action shots, also studio shootin is challenging when you have to wait until data has been written on the card, but for me it is ideal. So maybe you keep your M9 just for relaxed shooting and not when on an appointment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted July 2, 2011 Share #98 Posted July 2, 2011 The only thing I'd disagree with is the value of the M9 for paid work / assignments. Apart from things like concert photography / sports where I'd want the long lenses. the M9 does it all for me. Planning to sell all my Canon stuff apart from a 5D2 / 70-200 and 300 2.8 prime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted July 2, 2011 Share #99 Posted July 2, 2011 Possibly, but the Canon 1DsIII costs as much, and the Nikon D3X even more, and you don't see such emotional arguments concerning them... I suppose it's because Leica has in modern times gotten a reputation as a luxury item - fueled by the onslaught of various excessively priced cosmetic special editions. And of course it doesn't help that a certain part of the user base buy it as a luxury item rather than a photographic tool (see the 'should I buy an M9 or a Rolex' thread for a stomach turning example). no, if you read dpreview you will see there are many incompetant photographers who buy a Canon 5Dii or 1Div, etc, who are just rich and asked their "friend" what the best camera was. I am sure there are people that dislike Leica due to the status symbol, but you will be surprised how many people outside this forum who have never heard of Leica. Its nothing like Rolex. I would like to challenge another assumption that just because someone is a pro that they know everything, or are even any good outside their field. A war photographer wants a camera that is tough, takes 1000s of pictures per battery, has AF (yes!) and is mostly automated. We have moved on from the Capa school. The OP probably wants to shoot off 100s of pictures with only one keeper. As a M9 shooter I like most of my pictures to be keepers. This is a totally different style! There are a great many people who do take great striff pictures with Leica M (see ones of Egyptian uprising), but in general the M9 (or M7/MP if you like film) is for someone that wants the most possible clarity available today in a non-studio camera who also appreciates thinking about their photography and the precise control of manual focus. The OP is not one of these people and bought the M9 under a false premise. That is not the M's problem, its his! The M9 has nothing to apologise for! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 2, 2011 Share #100 Posted July 2, 2011 Charles is right. Batteries, frame lines, turn on delay, rear screen, and indeed the white balance which is every time different...and so on. He did not even mentioned the ISO issue, and the slowness of the camera. It's what I wrote here several times: the M9 is a camera for amateurs. Not for professionals who have to work quick, and can't spend too much time in post processing, which is indeed necessary if you have a M9. I worked with several M's. Since Leica went digital most of its advantages are gone. Sure, it is small, light, and the lenses are great ( but not that greater as for example Zeiss lenses, or equal). But the camera? Indeed, often a pain in the ass. I missed several pictures because of the slow buffer, while others just went on, I always have to spend more time on pp, until you get so tired of it that you decide not to use it any longer. For professionals who have to work each day in several light conditions, who have to work fast sometimes, who have to pp quick before they send their work to the agencies, newspapers or magazines, the Leica is no longer the right tool. You write like an amateur, or later-become photographer who believes in shotgunning an event with a DSLR, who cannot cope like the rest with selective moments and lower levels of light. You are definitely not a Leica client. Move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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