rosuna Posted June 10, 2011 Share #61 Posted June 10, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) But look also at the large number of M8 users who do not have any inclination to buy an M9. I think most M8 users have an inclination to buy a M9, but they are stopped to do that due to different reasons. Price, concerns on some characteristics of the M8 not resolved in the M9, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 Hi rosuna, Take a look here Open Letter to Leica — 10 Ways To Improve the M9 Rangefinder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dabow Posted June 10, 2011 Share #62 Posted June 10, 2011 Oh dear, seems like this article has ruffled a few feathers amongst the Leica-can-do-no-wrong brigade. Face it, the camera has flaws. More than a few in fact, most of which are clearly detailed in the letter. Be as dismissive as you like, but the M9 is far from a perfect camera in today's market. The M9 is capable of producing some great images, but I really do hope Leica address some of the problems in the next release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 10, 2011 Share #63 Posted June 10, 2011 But look also at the large number of M8 users who do not have any inclination to buy an M9. Yes I have friends who have gone from RD/1 to M8 and stopped. Friends who still are using RD/1 (only a few) But more friends who have traded M8 for film M or DSLR. the sample size is too small for statistical significance. Because of the (Iarge number of) new adapters of M9 Leica cannot and perhaps should not worry about 'dissidents' - to much for the moment. Leica need to worry about why they did not do a RD/1 first, and why the M10 took so long. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted June 10, 2011 Share #64 Posted June 10, 2011 Wow, a lot of people really jumped on the 'How dare he' band wagon. I think it's because he isn't describing a Leica M camera, but wants to change the Leica M into something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 10, 2011 Share #65 Posted June 10, 2011 Oh dear, seems like this article has ruffled a few feathers amongst the Leica-can-do-no-wrong brigade. Face it, the camera has flaws. More than a few in fact, most of which are clearly detailed in the letter. Be as dismissive as you like, but the M9 is far from a perfect camera in today's market. The M9 is capable of producing some great images, but I really do hope Leica address some of the problems in the next release. Who said the camera was perfect? I know I certainly didn't. But let's be realistic and call it what it is. NO camera will ever be perfect. As long as it lets you do what you want to accomplish, I'd say it's good enough. If it doesn't then you bought the wrong one. Collectively, we could bitch about every camera ever made - or ever will be. It's pointless unless we all build our own, to our own specifications. To expect Leica - or anyone else for that matter - to do so, is folly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 10, 2011 Share #66 Posted June 10, 2011 I think most M8 users have an inclination to buy a M9, but they are stopped to do that due to different reasons. Price, concerns on some characteristics of the M8 not resolved in the M9, etc. Or maybe do not see any need to do so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimboom Posted June 10, 2011 Share #67 Posted June 10, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh dear, seems like this article has ruffled a few feathers amongst the Leica-can-do-no-wrong brigade. Face it, the camera has flaws. More than a few in fact, most of which are clearly detailed in the letter. Be as dismissive as you like, but the M9 is far from a perfect camera in today's market. The M9 is capable of producing some great images, but I really do hope Leica address some of the problems in the next release. Yes I have it in my face every day, I love my flaws, it's not perfect but who is? Why a bigger, faster LCD, to review the moment, to make sure your on focus or to see if there's any little blinky flashing at you? Should we be taken the moment instead, and live with it? It does not have to be perfect. My father always told me "Keep It Simple Son" ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 10, 2011 Share #68 Posted June 10, 2011 good enough. No it only has to be a commercial success I dont need to buy it or like it. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabow Posted June 10, 2011 Share #69 Posted June 10, 2011 Who said the camera was perfect? I know I certainly didn't. But let's be realistic and call it what it is. NO camera will ever be perfect. As long as it lets you do what you want to accomplish, I'd say it's good enough. If it doesn't then you bought the wrong one. Collectively, we could bitch about every camera ever made - or ever will be. It's pointless unless we all build our own, to our own specifications. To expect Leica - or anyone else for that matter - to do so, is folly. There are certainly some, here on this forum, who will not have a bad word said against it. Ergo logic dictates they must think it's perfect. Just because you think something is good enough doesn't mean it can't (or shouldn't) be improved. You're right though, no camera is perfect. Some less so than others. In my opinion the current vision of the digital M is lagging behind in certain areas and therefore could be improved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 10, 2011 Share #70 Posted June 10, 2011 Ergo logic dictates they must think it's perfect. Nothing is perfect. The trick for Leica is to update it without destroying what it is that makes an M an M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabow Posted June 10, 2011 Share #71 Posted June 10, 2011 Nothing is perfect. The trick for Leica is to update it without destroying what it is that makes an M an M. Ah yes... and what is it that makes an M, an M? Because I expect it means different things to different people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 10, 2011 Share #72 Posted June 10, 2011 Open letter to Lloyd Chambers - 10 ways to improve your photography... on second thoughts I can't be bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted June 10, 2011 Share #73 Posted June 10, 2011 I think the open letter is spot on. Of course I'd like an ISO nob and maybe an EV+/- nob on top as well. Start reading the manual and try to understand the simplicity of the camera. You might be blind from more complicated cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 10, 2011 Share #74 Posted June 10, 2011 Because I expect it means different things to different people. Indeed Leica's job is to make it appeal to as many M users as possible - we all have different likes and dislikes, but Leica aren't making a camera for _us_ as individuals. They have to balance all the possibilities and produce something that will sell and make them money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 10, 2011 Share #75 Posted June 10, 2011 Ah yes... and what is it that makes an M, an M? Because I expect it means different things to different people. For a starter, it is called "M" because it is a rangefinder camera. The "M" stands for "Messsucher" - German for rangefinder. Given the range of excellent modern cameras which can be bought, you can safely assume that the people who bought and use an RF camera know what they're doing and know what they want. Hence, it's ridiculous to suggest in an "open letter" to abandon the very reasons why M users prefer the M camera over DSLRs, bridge cameras, P&S ones and so forth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 10, 2011 Share #76 Posted June 10, 2011 ...Just because you think something is good enough doesn't mean it can't (or shouldn't) be improved. You're right though, no camera is perfect. Some less so than others. In my opinion the current vision of the digital M is lagging behind in certain areas and therefore could be improved. Any technology must be continuously improved or it wouldn't be technology - rather an antique. So let's assume Leica does improve the M9, call it the M10. Now it's perfect. But only until someone complains about something. Or a new technology evolves. More often than not, a camera is already "obsolete" by the time between design and production. The point is, when does it end? It won't. I'm fairly certain we'll still see five threads a week claiming this or that stinks in any event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 10, 2011 Share #77 Posted June 10, 2011 I think the situation is simply that the high price of the Leica bodies and lenses makes people much more critical about what they get for their money. Likewise, many pro photographers are very critical about what they get from MF backs and cameras in terms of the latest technology and value for the money. A similar argument can apply to other brands but usually to a lesser degree. An example would be a Canon 5DII owner might say he doesn't see the value in having a 1DsIII, or a person using a consumer 70-300 won't see the value in buying a 70-200 2.8IS. The difference is there are various cameras and lenses in those systems that accommodate a wide range in price points and eliminate a lot of "bitching." There also is more competition in this market. There seem to be many who feel the M9 and lenses provide enough value for the money at least for the time being. But there will eventually be declines in sales figures and a new model will be released to try to pick up sales again. (Especially if more and more people start agreeing with any of Digilloyd's points as time goes on and the camera looks "dated" to them.) We all know this and what else is new? "Preferring a simple" camera does not mean that some wouldn't want the electronics to work faster, or the screen to be the best it could be, or the noise to be less at higher ISOs, or the rangefinder to lens interface to be closer to "perfect." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 10, 2011 Share #78 Posted June 10, 2011 Or maybe do not see any need to do so? That may be the case for a few M8 users, specially if they bought lenses considering a particular FoV and the crop factor, but the 24x36mm format of the M9 is too tempting and the key improvement here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabow Posted June 10, 2011 Share #79 Posted June 10, 2011 Any technology must be continuously improved or it wouldn't be technology - rather an antique. So let's assume Leica does improve the M9, call it the M10. Now it's perfect. But only until someone complains about something. Or a new technology evolves. More often than not, a camera is already "obsolete" by the time between design and production. The point is, when does it end? It won't. I'm fairly certain we'll still see five threads a week claiming this or that stinks in any event. I'm not entirely sure where this is heading, other than the obvious which we've both already stated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabow Posted June 10, 2011 Share #80 Posted June 10, 2011 For a starter, it is called "M" because it is a rangefinder camera. The "M" stands for "Messsucher" - German for rangefinder. Given the range of excellent modern cameras which can be bought, you can safely assume that the people who bought and use an RF camera know what they're doing and know what they want. Hence, it's ridiculous to suggest in an "open letter" to abandon the very reasons why M users prefer the M camera over DSLRs, bridge cameras, P&S ones and so forth. An aspect I would never want to take away from the camera. However, ways to improve focus accuracy with fast glass would be more than welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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