erlingmm Posted May 30, 2011 Share #1 Posted May 30, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) A used S2 (5500 actuations) is for sale in Norway with 70mm (non CS). 1 year, used by pro, recent focus adjustment Solms. What would be a good price for this combo now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi erlingmm, Take a look here Used price for s2 with 70mm. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted May 30, 2011 Share #2 Posted May 30, 2011 A used S2 (5500 actuations) is for sale in Norway with 70mm (non CS). 1 year, used by pro, recent focus adjustment Solms.What would be a good price for this combo now? Good for who? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c6gowin Posted May 30, 2011 Share #3 Posted May 30, 2011 Good for who? Fair question. However, I think it is safe to assume he is referring to the buyer. I wish I could help with pricing information, but I bought my S2 new and don't even want to think about what it is worth now. I shoot and don't worry about it. Seriously, I assume there is decent discount for buying used. Hopefully, there are other users here that know that can give you an idea of how much discount to expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanabe Posted May 31, 2011 Share #4 Posted May 31, 2011 It would depend on the type of sale, user to user with no guarantees or warranty or dealer to user with a limited warranty. If it is a user to user sale then the risk is on the user buying it and the seller needs to provide some sort of assurance that the camera is in proper operation or offer some sort of recourse for the buyer. If it is a dealer sale then the responsibility is on the store selling the camera. A user to user sale is should be about 10-20% less than a user buying the same item from the dealer as the "Buyer beware" rule goes into effect and this should hopefully cover any unexpected repairs that are uncovered. If I were selling a high ticket digital camera and wanted to get the maximum price for it, I would have it checked out completely by Leica. That way, both the seller and buyer knows that the camera was functioning up to Leica standards when it was sold. Listings of used or refurbished S2s on dealer sites have them at 10% less than new with a one year warranty, I would guess that 25% less retail for a user sale would be in line. Just my opinion Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted May 31, 2011 Share #5 Posted May 31, 2011 It would depend on the type of sale, user to user with no guarantees or warranty or dealer to user with a limited warranty. If it is a user to user sale then the risk is on the user buying it and the seller needs to provide some sort of assurance that the camera is in proper operation or offer some sort of recourse for the buyer. If it is a dealer sale then the responsibility is on the store selling the camera. A user to user sale is should be about 10-20% less than a user buying the same item from the dealer as the "Buyer beware" rule goes into effect and this should hopefully cover any unexpected repairs that are uncovered. If I were selling a high ticket digital camera and wanted to get the maximum price for it, I would have it checked out completely by Leica. That way, both the seller and buyer knows that the camera was functioning up to Leica standards when it was sold. Listings of used or refurbished S2s on dealer sites have them at 10% less than new with a one year warranty, I would guess that 25% less retail for a user sale would be in line. Just my opinion Al A 25% discount would make the $23,000 S2 body $17,250 and the 70mm $3,750 = $21,000. which sounds close if maybe a bit low. Dealer demos go for about $24,000 or $25,000 with lens but have full warranties. Getting a s2 body for $17K would be nice, but I haven't seen the camera alone for sale used anywhere. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanabe Posted June 1, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 1, 2011 Marc, There have been used "demo" S2s on dealer sites from time to time but I have never seen a private party for sale yet. My pricing is purely hypothetical and more in line what I would be comfortable in paying. -Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 1, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 1, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Marc,.......My pricing is purely hypothetical and more in line what I would be comfortable in paying. -Al Being an owner of a S2, 25% less is not in line with what I would be willing to sell (although I don't have the camera yet for 1 year). I also think that with 1 year, the camera should still have 1 year warranty and 5,000 actuations seems low (but as far as I know, it is impossible to check the precise number of actuations on the S2. Moreover, I doubt that the lens would depreciate as much as the camera. Anyway, the price is what the seller and the buyer will eventually agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted June 1, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 1, 2011 Based on the info erlingmm gave, I'd guess between 15 and 16,5 thousend including VAT for the S2 (not being S2-P) and the 70 (no CS) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted June 1, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 1, 2011 Before anyone jumps at me: My guess is in Euro's... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atanabe Posted June 1, 2011 Share #10 Posted June 1, 2011 GMB, True, 25% may not be what you are looking to get out of a one year old camera as a seller and it is what buyer and seller agrees upon is the true price. But in the real world of supply and demand, the asking price at times may exceed the demand for the item. There are several demo S2s available from dealers now selling at 14% below new with a one year warranty. They are not exactly flying off the web page at that price. The reality of digital is that the value of the imaging instrument has little if any value after a new version comes out with incremental improvements. It is just the sign of the technology world we live in. The lenses will retain their value to a point but not as powerful as the M lenses have historically performed. Best to go out and shoot, enjoy and live with the reality rather than fight it. If you use this to make a living then consult your tax professional to structure your lease or purchase to maximize the investment dollars. Yes, I am an owner of an S2, a used one at that, which I can assure you was purchased at the "right" price from a dealer. Al Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 1, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 1, 2011 GMB, Yes, I am an owner of an S2, a used one at that, which I can assure you was purchased at the "right" price from a dealer. Al Al--I bought mine as a demo (had been used by a pro for one week as a replacement camera) from a dealer with full warranty at what I would also consider the "right" price. More importantly, I do not intend to sell any time soon so I couldn't care less what the right price would be if I were to put it on the market. Instead, I enjoy shooting with at and try to get the hell out of the beast. I must admit that I also have no idea as to how many used/demo S2 are on the market, but my impression was that these are not too many, at least not in Europe. Anyway, I think (and hope) the lenses will hold their vallue pretty well. Happy shooting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 2, 2011 Share #12 Posted June 2, 2011 I think all of the above are sound rational responses. It would fetch what the market will bear. Supply and demand and all that. Unless forced by unforeseen financial circumstances, I have no intention of selling, and don't worry about retained value one bit. The value is in the using. I also think that the retained value aspect is a bit different from historic photographic offerings during the growth periods of digital. I know from many years of Medium Format usage that once you pass 40 meg the user experience changes dramatically. Given the DSLR form-factor of the S2, and the skew toward using it hand-held, I personally have a less desire for a higher meg count even if they offered it. Most of the gain would be lost by the way I use the S2. As it stands, it seems a perfect balance between size/meg count and usability for various applications. Basically, the camera is a means to the S lenses which are the best I've ever used outside of some M optics. Perhaps just as important to this thread's subject: none of us has yet realized the full potential of what we paid for when buying the S2 body ... when the CS lenses become available, THEN we will. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted June 6, 2011 Share #13 Posted June 6, 2011 Marc, what has been your experience in terms of minimum shutter speed requirement when shooting the 35mm and 70mm handheld? Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted June 6, 2011 Share #14 Posted June 6, 2011 Marc, what has been your experience in terms of minimum shutter speed requirement when shooting the 35mm and 70mm handheld? Cheers, Jeff My best success shooting hand-held with the 70mm has been trying to stay above 1/125th. Of course, I have sharp results from 1/45th to 1/90th as well, but 1/125th to 1/180th guarantees crisp results. The 35mm is much easier to hand-hold as the angle of view is much wider. I am able to get tack-sharp results at 1/45th to 1/60th and I've had success hand-holding down to 1/24th. The basic rule on the S2 is to keep your shutter speed above 2x focal length. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 7, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 7, 2011 IPerhaps just as important to this thread's subject: none of us has yet realized the full potential of what we paid for when buying the S2 body ... when the CS lenses become available, THEN we will. -Marc Marc--Would you care to expand on this? Is your view that that is when you shoot with strobes or generally. Georg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted June 7, 2011 Share #16 Posted June 7, 2011 Cheers for the feedback David. Much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2011 Share #17 Posted June 7, 2011 Marc--Would you care to expand on this? Is your view that that is when you shoot with strobes or generally. Georg I am also a bit interested as David Farkas suggested that the FP shutter is still active with the leaf shutter lenses and other than than strobe times there may be no decrease in motion....unlike a technical camera. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 8, 2011 Share #18 Posted June 8, 2011 Marc--Would you care to expand on this? Is your view that that is when you shoot with strobes or generally. Georg Higher sync speed when shooting with strobes ... as opposed to a much weaker speed-light. Being limited to 1/125th when shooting with strobes in brighter conditions makes controlling the background/foreground light balance difficult. 1/500th helps this. Also, if shooting in lower indoor light using a wider aperture, there are times when you want to limit the background ambient exposure by increasing the shutter speed ... which has no effect on the foreground exposure from the strobe light because the flash duration is faster that the 1/500th sync speed of the S2 with the CS lenses. Traditionally, leaf-shutter cameras like the Hasselblad H, offer less shutter vibration than a focal plane camera. However, if it is true that the S2 also utilizes the focal plane shutter even with CS leaf shutter lenses, then that advantage may be lost. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted June 8, 2011 Share #19 Posted June 8, 2011 Traditionally, leaf-shutter cameras like the Hasselblad H, offer less shutter vibration than a focal plane camera. However, if it is true that the S2 also utilizes the focal plane shutter even with CS leaf shutter lenses, then that advantage may be lost. Wouldn't mirror vibration be a bigger factor than shutter vibration? I have no Hasselblad or S2 experience, but the vibration from the R8's shutter with mirror pre-release is hardly worth mentioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 8, 2011 Share #20 Posted June 8, 2011 Wouldn't mirror vibration be a bigger factor than shutter vibration? I have no Hasselblad or S2 experience, but the vibration from the R8's shutter with mirror pre-release is hardly worth mentioning. Yes Doug, of course Mirror vibration is a bigger issue unless you pre-release it. However, there is a difference between a 35mm R8 shutter and a larger Medium Format shutter ... namely mass in motion that has to stop. For example, the Phase One Mamiya DF body is a focal plane shutter camera, and creates vibrations at certain shutter speeds ... which have been well documented by techno-geek users on forums such as GetDpi. Those users are lobbing for elimination of use of the focal plane shutter when using the newer Schneider Leaf Shutter lenses as Phase One develops their new replacement body due soon. This Focal Plane shutter vibration issue has become more and more apparent as the resolution of Medium Format digital sensors has increased. FYI, To mitigate mirror vibration effects when not shot in pre-release, Hasselblad H cameras allow the user to select various levels of mirror delay which is measured in milliseconds. As minor as it may sound, this actually works in practice. I use it all the time, and the lag is indistinguishable from when it is set to its normal setting, but the superior results are clearly apparent when shooting hand-held. Despite the form factor of the S2, using the mirror delay function coupled with leaf shutter lenses, I can "relatively" shoot the H camera at lower shutter speeds than the S2 with better hand-held results. While the S2 mirror is smaller than a 645 camera's, and well dampened, it would be interesting if a mirror delay function could also be implemented in the S2 via firmware, or if it is also a hardware issue? -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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