Lindolfi Posted June 4, 2011 Share #41 Posted June 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is that so? I wonder… Principles of Optics, Born and Wolf, Pergamon Press, fifth edition, page 188. If you have no access to this handbook, Here is a nice derivation of the law, independent of wavelength: click If the discolouration would be due to the optics, you would also see it in the film M camera's loaded with slide film using wide angle lenses. You don't see it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 Hi Lindolfi, Take a look here M9 firmware upgrade in a few days. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mjh Posted June 4, 2011 Share #42 Posted June 4, 2011 Is that so? I wonder… It is; the cosine 4 law is purely geometrical; it doesn’t care about wavelength. The red (or whatever) edges phenomenon is a complex issue that isn’t well understood. Luckily Leica thinks they know what is causing it so there’s some hope for a cure. So far it has been difficult to provide a general solution even for Leica’s own lenses where they have access to all the data they could wish for; whether they could extend a solution to third-party lenses is open to doubt. We will see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 4, 2011 Share #43 Posted June 4, 2011 If the discolouration would be due to the optics, you would also see it in the film M camera's loaded with slide film using wide angle lenses. You don't see it there. Yes that's true, so I'd conjecture that it's about the micro-lenses in the optic glass that covers the sensor (necessary for the digital M to be possible) in combination with the angle of incident. If a beam of light strokes a surface at an angle of 15º it produces a less bright spot than from, say, 70º. So, it will be far more difficult for these micro-lenses to produce a bright signal on the borders of the sensor than with an angle of incident of 70º. But then it remains strange that with my CV15 I, there's only 'red shift' on the left hand side (given the manual correction for WATE at 16mm), because you would expect the micro-lenses to be equally ineffective at both sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 4, 2011 Share #44 Posted June 4, 2011 The Italian flag syndrome has also been observed with microlens-less sensors ... As I said, it is a complex issue without any simple answers (so far). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydkugelmass Posted June 4, 2011 Share #45 Posted June 4, 2011 Light coming near the image borders (with some Ultra Wide Angle lenses) arrives with a large angle wrt the normal vector to the sensor plane, meaning that a sub optimal variable lighting intensity is to be seen by peripheral pixel patterns. Taking in account the non isotropic structure of the Bayer scheme adopted in the Kodak sensor in the M9, a largely asymmetrical (at small scale) filtering may result with the well known visual color artifacts on the full image scale. The visible result is an integral phenomenon, obtained from very small contributions everywhere varying in the full image. At the center the effect is quasi - absent because of the much smaller arrival angle of light on the sensor surface, (wrt the normal-to-sensor-surface vector). (some modeling could be interesting.) Btw: Vignetting is much better corrected (as in the case of color shift), when the CV UW Heliar 12mm/ZM Distagon 15mm/f2,8 are in use, choosing, as other forumers observed, the 21mm (S.Angulon?) setting on the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanuck Posted June 12, 2011 Share #46 Posted June 12, 2011 Lindolfi good idea mentioning the 12mm Voigtlander. Can you imagine using this on the M9 with no visible banding? That would simply be amazing 12mm on full frame! I have noticed the prices or the 15mm aspherical have really gone up where I live. Prices reaching nearing $1000 I saw this weekend! Unreal I'd like to believe this is due to the release of the new firmware any week now. However, shops have been telling me its the increasing demand from China wanting anything and everything related to Leica photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 12, 2011 Share #47 Posted June 12, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Btw: Vignetting is much better corrected (as in the case of color shift), when the CV UW Heliar 12mm/ZM Distagon 15mm/f2,8 are in use, choosing, as other forumers observed, the 21mm (S.Angulon?) setting on the M9. No such Supre Angulon setting exists, and the 21 mm settings can only be for or the Elmarit and the Summilux of that lenght. The Super Angulon is one of the few lenses the Leica advises not to use on the M/M9. The 21mm setting indeed works OK for the VC 15mm Heliar, I can confirm that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted June 13, 2011 Share #48 Posted June 13, 2011 ...But then it remains strange that with my CV15 I, there's only 'red shift' on the left hand side ... you would expect the micro-lenses to be equally ineffective at both sides. I've often wondered why its only on the left. Why is that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 13, 2011 Share #49 Posted June 13, 2011 hydeca - your guess is as good as anyone else's. Join the party at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/185178-towards-explanation-italian-flag-phenomenon-8.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 13, 2011 Share #50 Posted June 13, 2011 lack of symmetry in optics or correction you may get a more subdued & different color on other side. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 13, 2011 Share #51 Posted June 13, 2011 I've often wondered why its only on the left. Why is that? Find the answer and collect your price … (Just joking; unfortunately there is no price. You will not get rich if you can explain the phenomenon but I can assure you that you will be famous.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 13, 2011 Share #52 Posted June 13, 2011 This from the newsletter -- "The first Leica Forum Firmware Beta Test is finished! About 40 forum members tested two beta versions of the new LEICA M9 Firmware and thus helped to improve the quality. Primary purpose of this release was to minimize the "red corners" showing up incidentally. The first beta version (1.158) included an overcorrection for some lenses but Leica provided a new optimized version (1.160) which is a great improvement according to all testers. This version now runs through the final quality check in Solms and will be released within the next few days." The above was posted on May 3rd. Today is June 13th. Think maybe it's time the thread title was changed from "in a few days"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 13, 2011 Share #53 Posted June 13, 2011 Yeah the 15mm Voigt works wonderful on the M9 especially if you enjoy red banding at the bottom of the frame. Other than that its mint. I hope the new firmware corrects this so that they perform like they did on the cropped M8 sensor. Are you manually setting the focal length properly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twil01 Posted June 14, 2011 Share #54 Posted June 14, 2011 The above was posted on May 3rd. Today is June 13th. Think maybe it's time the thread title was changed from "in a few days"? Guess days in Leica-land equate to weeks or months on planet earth ...must be why 6-9 month delivery times for 35/50 lux do not seem to phase them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 14, 2011 Share #55 Posted June 14, 2011 Currently, the best way to shoot ultra-wides on the M9 that aren't from Leica (with a matching code; or third-party that work well with an approximation) is to use them UNcoded (you don't want any in-camera corrections) and CornerFix in post - which will take care of all of it (coloration and vignetting). I've shot a 4/21 Color Skopar, supposedly "unusable" on the M9 - and gotten perfect images. Since I have the "Type I" LTM/M adapter, I couldn't code it if I wanted to and I'm too lazy to code it manually via the menu (which would be a waste of time anyway). Using CornerFix to Correct Images Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 14, 2011 Share #56 Posted June 14, 2011 The above was posted on May 3rd. Today is June 13th. Think maybe it's time the thread title was changed from "in a few days"? Most likely the firmware contain software for more than one camera, so most likely it's released after June 21. Or they tested more and wanted to fix more bugs. But coming, it certainly is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 14, 2011 Share #57 Posted June 14, 2011 Not to mention the timing of other rumored product releases. Assuming one believes in such things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 14, 2011 Share #58 Posted June 14, 2011 The 18th of June was the release date, I read somewhere. But I also read somewhere that a certain date in the past few months would be the end of the world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 14, 2011 Share #59 Posted June 14, 2011 The 18th of June was the release date, I read somewhere. But I also read somewhere that a certain date in the past few months would be the end of the world The guy who had predicted the end of the world in May is accepting donations again – single and recurring (!), so that should give us hope. As to the imminent release of the new firmware I can only reapeat what I have said before: If we are lucky then the firmware will be released when it’s ready – even earlier when we are less lucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 14, 2011 Share #60 Posted June 14, 2011 Well, at least if the new firmware doesn't come this month, it won't be the end of the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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