Chrome M4 50 Jahre...?

[huubl]

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eBay # 290556414980 ...true or fake? Anyone ever heard of this?

[luigi bertolotti]

I'd say it cannot be defined a "typical fake"... simply, a good (apparently) M4, with a s/n dating it well before the 50th anniversary, and to which someone has finely painted (engraved too ?) the "Leica M4" identification and the 50th symbol: nothing more, nothing less. If working fine as declared, can be an interesting buy if at a "normal" price... the asking is definitely too high and the allusion to a "prototype" from the seller is misleading, but the seller has some other items that make hard to think of him as a "faker" (the Planar 135 for Linhof he sells is really rare, even if its asking price is, imho, also too high)

[huubl]

I'd say it cannot be defined a "typical fake"... simply, a good (apparently) M4, with a s/n dating it well before the 50th anniversary, and to which someone has finely painted (engraved too ?) the "Leica M4" identification and the 50th symbol: nothing more, nothing less. If working fine as declared, can be an interesting buy if at a "normal" price... the asking is definitely too high and the allusion to a "prototype" from the seller is misleading, but the seller has some other items that make hard to think of him as a "faker" (the Planar 135 for Linhof he sells is really rare, even if its asking price is, imho, also too high)

 

Thanks Luigi. First, I don't say the seller is fraudulent, he seems to be selling good stuff over the years. Second, the M4 is a really nice M4. However, the anniversary logo could be engraved later by someone looking to "upgrade" the camera for some "added" collectors value. I don't know, it just could be... If this would not be documented by Leica, in my opinion such "rareness" is just "baked air" and not worth the price the seller is asking now.

[luigi bertolotti]

Thanks Luigi. First, I don't say the seller is fraudulent, he seems to be selling good stuff over the years. Second, the M4 is a really nice M4. However, the anniversary logo could be engraved later by someone looking to "upgrade" the camera for some "added" collectors value. I don't know, it just could be... If this would not be documented by Leica, in my opinion such "rareness" is just "baked air" and not worth the price the seller is asking now.

 

That's exactly my thought too : given that 50th anniversary M4 are well documented, nothing bad if someone likes to write something on his chrome M4... pretending to add value to it through this operation is, as you say, "baked air".... if I take my honest M4 and engrave my name on the top this makes it surely unique... and rare "as hen's teeth"

To make a "real fake" M4 50th one needs to have a M4, paint it in right black, modify the s/n, add the writings... probably doesn't worth the job... they were 2000 about, if I remember well...

[jpattison]

They didn't say "LEICA M4" on the front, just "LEICA" and had a serial number with a letter L E I C or A associated, on the rear.

 

That script on the front looks too modern, even laser cut on.

 

John

[Beta Photography]

They didn't say "LEICA M4" on the front, just "LEICA" and had a serial number with a letter L E I C or A associated, on the rear.

 

That script on the front looks too modern, even laser cut on.

 

John

 

I agree. I have original Leica M4 Jahre, but the front logo is only written Leica plus the Jahre sign. In addition, the front logo of Jahre is also engraved while on the ebay picture seems not and at the back there's a special code "numbers" with "alphabet".

 

Rgrds,

 

Beta

[luigi bertolotti]

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As a side not, a M4 50th Jahre is offered in these days at an auction :

WestLicht Photographica Auction

 

And is worth to notice that base price and evaluation are in the same range as std. black M4s...

[huubl]

Just checked out that this M4 # 1212648 is from 1968. Would have been remarkably early to produce a prototype SEVEN years in advance of the occasion

[sabears]

It's the famous april fool edition 1968: in the original ones there is a tuna engraved inside the baseplate:D.

 

 

cheers

[vickko]

Hmm, old thread, but, I know the seller.

 

I also know that he lives in Toronto, and Midland may have been doing trial runs of the engraving for the M4 production, and a scrap top used for practice may have escaped the destruction bin and put onto a camera.

 

Would not be surprised if this was a practice engraving, from the Midland factory.

[luigi bertolotti]

Reasonable hipotesis by sure

[sabears]

The main problem was that at that time Leitz-Midland had been warned many, many times by Leitz-Wetzlar: the order was to stop unauthorized productions.

In fact Leitz -Midland had become a factory of some quirky and unusual editions ("prototypes" as Maple-Leaf M4-2, gold Everest, various 18x24, etc.). But some employees continued their illegal activity, that's why sometimes crop up strange objects...

 

 

...There would also be the story of a dark-lady, but... that's another story...

 

cheers.

[gyoung]

At that time I was working for the Leica dealer in Montreal, the Leica rep offered us screw mount versions of any lens made at Midland, so there should be some 8 element 35 Summicrons with LTM and serials above 2 million thereabouts. I bought mine for the M3 so it came with goggles, would have been strange if it had a screw mount!

 

Gerry