richam Posted April 20, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had the occasion to capture a number of images with my X1, while a friend was shooting with my M8. The M8 had a 50mm Summilux (pre-asph) with B+W 486 IR cut filter attached. The lens detection was On + UV/IR, and the lens is coded. Both cameras were set up on jpeg fine, auto white balance. Under quartz-halogen (I believe) lighting, the M8 color shifts were quite disappointing. Both photos of Wendy were adjusted "auto" in Photoshop; there was practically no color cast change from the auto out of the cameras. The flesh tones came out about the same and seem normal... First the X1 photo. Here Wendy's black sweater, the blue tablecloth, and the grays of the rolled up awning in the upper left appear correct. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Then the M8 photo. Here Wendy's black sweater and the blue tablecloth have a purple/magenta cast, while the awning has a cyan cast. The lights outside on the awning are common tungsten bulbs. Here's a shot of the interior lights: Anyone else have a similar problem? Is the effect normal? Is my M8 starting to go haywire? Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Then the M8 photo. Here Wendy's black sweater and the blue tablecloth have a purple/magenta cast, while the awning has a cyan cast. The lights outside on the awning are common tungsten bulbs. Here's a shot of the interior lights: Anyone else have a similar problem? Is the effect normal? Is my M8 starting to go haywire? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1650899'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Hi richam, Take a look here Disappointing M8 Color Shift. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted April 20, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 20, 2011 The only time I've seen a magenta caste like that is when I've shot without a 486 filter. So two questions, are you certain the filter was on the lens when you took that particular photograph? If so, is the filter really a 486 - does it have 486 written on the rim? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted April 20, 2011 Share #3 Posted April 20, 2011 Michael, I opened your second image in PS CS4; duplicated the layer; opened Levels adjustment layer; sampled Wendy's sweater with the black sampler and the image looked more normal. Try it. In dubious lighting I habitually use a grey card for removing colour contamination; but I do shoot Raw files. There is much more scope for correction. Otherwise your modus operandi looks fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted April 20, 2011 The only time I've seen a magenta caste like that is when I've shot without a 486 filter. So two questions, are you certain the filter was on the lens when you took that particular photograph? If so, is the filter really a 486 - does it have 486 written on the rim? Yes and yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted April 20, 2011 Michael, I opened your second image in PS CS4; duplicated the layer; opened Levels adjustment layer; sampled Wendy's sweater with the black sampler and the image looked more normal. Try it. In dubious lighting I habitually use a grey card for removing colour contamination; but I do shoot Raw files. There is much more scope for correction. Otherwise your modus operandi looks fine. Tried your recommended adjustment. Flesh tones held ok, but lost detail in the darks and got more cyan shift in the rest of the photo. But, would certainly use this method if I wanted a "keeper." Thanks for the tip. I normally shoot RAW/DNG + jpg, however in this case we were using just "jpeg fine" to cut down on the SD card write time and allow a faster review on the LCD. And, we weren't after any keepers anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted April 20, 2011 I had almost forgotten. There were a couple of shots with my 18mm Super-Elmar with, of course, the Leica filter. The colors are a lot better. Maybe I need to get rid of my B+W filters and get genuine Leica. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1650964'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted April 20, 2011 Share #7 Posted April 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Michael-- There's nothing wrong with B+W filters in general. I'd check this one out specifically. Shoot the same sweater with and without the filter. And try the same with a Leica filter, even if you just hold it in front of the lens. Try it at home first and see if you run into the same trouble. If not, try it at the same establishment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 20, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 20, 2011 It might just be worth checking the image files' exif data to see whether the camera had read the 50 'lux's coding correctly, or whether it had either not read any coding, or had misread the coding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted April 20, 2011 Michael--There's nothing wrong with B+W filters in general. I'd check this one out specifically. Shoot the same sweater with and without the filter. And try the same with a Leica filter, even if you just hold it in front of the lens. Try it at home first and see if you run into the same trouble. If not, try it at the same establishment. Can't do it at home without Wendy and her sweater, and my wife wouldn't let me get away with that, even if I could talk Wendy into it. Seriously, will try some shots again at the Blue Parrot, probably Friday. I checked my 75 Summarit, and it has a 46mm Leica filter, so I can swap back and forth with the 50mm Lux for test purposes. I have a feeling that the lights at the Blue Parrot, whatever they are, emit some wavelengths that befuddle the B+W filter more than the Leica. Thanks for the help, and will post a follow up if there's anything of consequence to report. And BTW, the EXIF data is solid; the 50 'Lux coding is being read properly, even though I coded it myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted April 21, 2011 Share #10 Posted April 21, 2011 Oops! Guess I shouldn't have said "try it at home first." Most peculiar. Do keep us posted, Michael! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Linsengericht Posted April 21, 2011 Share #11 Posted April 21, 2011 emit some wavelengths that befuddle the B+W filter more than the Leica I use both types (B+W and Leica) for years and don't see any difference in results. Your results looks as if the B+W filter does not block IR at all. Is this labelled incorrectly? Does it show that green tint if you take off the filter and look at an angle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted April 21, 2011 I use both types (B+W and Leica) for years and don't see any difference in results. Your results looks as if the B+W filter does not block IR at all. Is this labelled incorrectly? Does it show that green tint if you take off the filter and look at an angle? It has that tint, just the same as my other sizes of B+W and Leica filters: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652139'>More sharing options...
richam Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted April 21, 2011 Heeding some previous advice, I decided to do some home tests, using available fabrics and a halogen light. Used my X1, D-Lux 4, V-Lux 2, and the M8 with various lens and filter combinations. In the photos, the blue fabric on the left is supposed to be 100% Cotton, and the gray fabric on the right is all synthetic. The best color was from the X1: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 50 Lux without filter: the 50 Lux with B+W filter: the 50 Lux with Leica filter: You can view the entire set at: IR Test Gallery Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The 50 Lux without filter: the 50 Lux with B+W filter: the 50 Lux with Leica filter: You can view the entire set at: IR Test Gallery ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652220'>More sharing options...
lct Posted April 21, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 21, 2011 Something wrong in your M8 pics. The last one should look like that. White balance problem at first glance. Did you use a raw converter? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652369'>More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 22, 2011 Share #15 Posted April 22, 2011 What white balance data is the exif showing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted April 22, 2011 Something wrong in your M8 pics. The last one should look like that. White balance problem at first glance. Did you use a raw converter? I use Adobe Camera Raw & Photoshop. But I did not do a proper white balance on that last image, as you suggest. Here are some more interesting results, using the same garments (cotton left and synthetic right) and comparing sun versus halogen lighting. All were with the 50mm Summilux (pre-asph). I attached an 18% photo gray card and did a gray eyedropper balance adjust on all images: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Note the B+W filter failed miserably under quartz-halogen lighting. The B+W sunlight image was better; cotton was good, but synthetic still had a magenta tinge. The Leica filter did well under both conditions. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Note the B+W filter failed miserably under quartz-halogen lighting. The B+W sunlight image was better; cotton was good, but synthetic still had a magenta tinge. The Leica filter did well under both conditions. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652639'>More sharing options...
richam Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted April 22, 2011 What white balance data is the exif showing? Paul, The was no meaningful EXIF white balance datum, as I was opening and processing the DNG image. White balance is selectable when opening in Adobe Camera RAW. For the previous night's quartz-halogen shots, I opened with tungsten white balance, as this looked the closest to reality. On my recently posted set, I opened the sunlight shots in sunlight WB, and the quartz-halogen in tungsten WB. This is a moot point since I finished with a gray eyedropper balance on the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 22, 2011 Share #18 Posted April 22, 2011 I would try another B+W filter as this one doesn't behave normally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted April 22, 2011 I would try another B+W filter as this one doesn't behave normally. Just what I was thinking. The only other B+W 486 I have on hand is a 39mm, which I leave on my 28mm Elmar. It seems to work a lot better. Here's the comparison. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652818'>More sharing options...
richam Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted April 22, 2011 In an attempt to eliminate another variable, I tried one shot with the 28mm Elmarit while holding the 46mm B+W filter in front of the lens. Looks like the 46mm B+W filter is defective. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149583-disappointing-m8-color-shift/?do=findComment&comment=1652828'>More sharing options...
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