canetsbe Posted April 18, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey all.. I've been getting consistently crooked horizons on the photos coming from my M8. I've tested both my 28mm elmarit and m-hex 50/2 framelines against straight lines and they both make crooked photos. I'm wondering if this is a viewfinder issue or sensor issue? The finder was upgraded and sensor was realigned in October last year along with some various other work (though I'm not the original owner, I have the work-order paperwork from Leica). Anyone heard of an issue like this? I'm assuming if it got screwed up at that time it will still be covered under their one-year repair warranty. Thanks, Cole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 Hi canetsbe, Take a look here Crooked horizons..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted April 19, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 19, 2011 Cole-- There have been some similar cases reported; usually they resolve themselves into user error. As for whether the year's warranty is transferrable, Leica could tell you that. To me the M finder frames always look cockeyed, but the image comes out fine. Maybe it's from my astigmatism, or from the fact that they're seated at 45 degrees to the viewfinder optics. Remember, since the M finder mechanism is pretty complex optically and mechanically, your eye has to be at the right place to see the frames, the focusing patch and the digital readout properly. There was a thread a couple years ago on a similar topic where people made several suggestions toward checking the problem: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/32304-tilted-horizon-means-tilted-rangefinder.html. If you're not familiar with how the framelines are mounted, this Mark Norton thread may be of interest as well: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/67857-anatomy-leica-m8-framelines.html. Since they're all on the same two pieces of metal, if one is cocked, they're all cocked. But I don't think it's possible to put them in on an angle. Good luck checking it out, and keep us posted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 19, 2011 Share #3 Posted April 19, 2011 What do you mean by "crooked" exactly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted April 19, 2011 Thanks Howard. I checked out that other thread, very informative! I'll try some of the tests described therein and also try to pay attention to the way I hold the camera and press the shutter. However after doing the mirror test by lining up the bottom of the framelines to the bottom plate of the camera numerous times, I noticed crooked framelines but photos came out straight. I could not get the framelines to line up straight with the bottom plate OR top when shifting foreward, backward, or up and down... leading me to believe there is something up with these framelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted April 19, 2011 What do you mean by "crooked" exactly? By that I mean leveling a horizon with the framelines does not produce a level photo... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted April 19, 2011 Share #6 Posted April 19, 2011 Get yourself an inexpensive spirit level (Ebay), a tripod and test yourself as well as your camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149459-crooked-horizons/?do=findComment&comment=1650161'>More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted April 19, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seattle, Hasn't the mirror test proven it's the framelines? Until someone can give me a reason why it isn't, I'm pretty convinced. I suppose the level could reinforce my conclusions but since the framelines move as the camera moves I don't see any possible way myself or the sensor could be the culprit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted April 19, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 19, 2011 After looking through my viewfinder, I have to agree the framelines are slightly askew depending on the angle that you place your eye to the eyepiece. I find them to be pretty much useless. For critical level images nothing beats the spirit level and a tripod. I only use the rangefinder framelines as a rough guide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 19, 2011 Share #9 Posted April 19, 2011 By that I mean leveling a horizon with the framelines does not produce a level photo... Ah yes thanks, i'd use a tripod and a level to be sure but i suspect a frame lines problem as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted April 19, 2011 Share #10 Posted April 19, 2011 I am very surprised that this is a problem, my M8 does allow accurate (handheld) levelling of the horizon, example see below, this has not been rotated in PP: larger pictures here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted April 19, 2011 Share #11 Posted April 19, 2011 I too have been struggling with this problem recently when taking a series of horizon-shots. I had to rotate most of the images within a 0.5-1.5 degrees in post. Lanzarote - a set on Flickr So far my impression is that it just takes extra effort to get the horizon straight. Some shots that I have really concentrated on have been just right. Still I can't help but wonder why horizons end up more level with my M6. Perhaps its size and weight give it better handling? Or perhaps there really is something wrong with the M8 frameline alignment? Need to test... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted April 19, 2011 I've never noticed it with my M3 or M6 either. And my M8 photos seem to be off by a degree or two as well. It's not much but defintely noticable. I've been shooting those cameras before the M8 long enough to have noticed this kind of thing if it were user error. Looks like I'll be making a call to Leica to see what to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted April 19, 2011 Share #13 Posted April 19, 2011 I followed forum tips and took mirror photos. The camera body is pefectly aligned with the camera body so its clear that atleast the sensor is straight. However while taking the shots I looked carefully at the alignment of the framelines and the roof of my flat. When I move my eye slightly to the side while not moving the camera the frameline seems to shift out of alignment with the roof. It seems it really makes a difference how centered your eye is to the viewfinder. You should not "look around" in the viewfinder but look straight into the middle. I am using glasses while shooting so its very likely that have been peering into the viewfider the wrong way when I have been getting crooked horizons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted April 20, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 20, 2011 I followed forum tips and took mirror photos. The camera body is pefectly aligned with the camera body so its clear that atleast the sensor is straight. I obviously meant to say that the image borders are in alignment with the camera body in the mirror image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterman Posted April 20, 2011 Share #15 Posted April 20, 2011 I think it's mainly caused by how you look through the finder. I had this to start with also cutting peoples feet off. Just have to be aware of it and practice is the only answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted April 21, 2011 I tried the mirror test again, and if I shoot right-eyed with my eye looking in from the rightmost side everything just about lines up. Maybe it's just a habit from shooting left-eyed that I was looking in sideways. Anyway I went out shooting a bit yesterday and came back with better results than in the past, but it still doesn't feel like everything quite right... But maybe then again it COULD just be a feel thing. I'll have to give it more time to see if it starts to "feel" right. Bottom line is that the lines move depending on the angle you're looking into the finder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted April 21, 2011 Share #17 Posted April 21, 2011 The more you use your equipment, the better aquainted you will become with it as well as yourself as a photographer. Every piece of equipment has a sweet spot and you'll never know where it is until you learn by using it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canetsbe Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted April 21, 2011 I still think the lines are off. I have to peer in so far from the right that I can't see the right 1/3 of the window. It shouldn't be like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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