barjohn Posted February 3, 2011 Share #221 Â Posted February 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bill, something we can agree on. As soon as you realize it isn't meeting your needs, sell it off quickly before others figure it out and prices decline. You had the fun of being the first kid on the block with one and that is worth something. You won't lose much money, if any. Holding on and waiting for Leica is almost always a bad strategy. They have repeatedly demonstrated that when it comes to firmware updates they are very slow, either because they are incapable or because it isn't a priority. From a user perspective the results are the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Hi barjohn, Take a look here X1 Firmware v2 Upgrade [Merged thread]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ecaton Posted February 3, 2011 Share #222 Â Posted February 3, 2011 I don't get all the hooha. Â For me taking pictures with an X1 is no slower than taking pics with a M camera. It takes a second or more to focus a rangefinder. And if you know what you're doing, you can use the X1 manual focus which is similar to setting hyperfocus on a film camera. That's how Frank and Cartier-Bresson somehow managed to squeek by with their tired, old, non-zoom, non-automatic cameras. Â I wonder how many X1 users come from that rangefinder/film world? Â I do disagree with you. In theory you are right, one could use mf and hyperfocus with the X1. In practice, though, things are more cumbersome, unfortunately. Courtesy to Leica's way of implementing mf with the X1. As said in another post, when manually focusing with the X1, my attention is to the camera, the substandard lcd screen with crude distance settings, the flimsy distance setting wheel, which moves upon the slightest touch. With the M, I'm focused on my surroundings, the camera does not get into my way. The M is a vastly superior tool for mf. Only those who used both systems can appreciate the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippa Posted February 3, 2011 Share #223 Â Posted February 3, 2011 If Leica really had a workable fix for focus speed that did not introduce other negative issues , do you not think it would have been released already? Â Remember Leica ( like Rolex ) are Masters of Marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted February 3, 2011 Share #224 Â Posted February 3, 2011 I wonder how many X1 users come from that rangefinder/film world? Â I do... and zone focus on a M with a proper depth of field scale is a lot faster than with the X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted February 3, 2011 Share #225 Â Posted February 3, 2011 Why are all these guys who never touched, used or owned a X1 defend its obvious warts so vehemently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted February 3, 2011 Share #226 Â Posted February 3, 2011 If Leica really had a workable fix for focus speed that did not introduce other negative issues , do you not think it would have been released already? Â Remember Leica ( like Rolex ) are Masters of Marketing. Â Not necessarily. Â The focus speed may be fixed, but there are other aspects on which to work.. distance scale - optimizing write/read time - retooling to be able to shoot dng only. Â We don't really know if that's the case until we see the changes made upon release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasco Posted February 3, 2011 Share #227 Â Posted February 3, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) BILL it is absolute crap to say if you are an early adopter you have to pay the price. I have owned many products in the past that have just been released and had no problems with them. its 2011 now, times have changed. Maybe if the customers of old had the stomach to complain when things were not up to scratch then maybe products would not be released untill they work correctly. My Leicaflex sl worked straight out of the box so did my D-Lux 4 so why not the X1. I have sent the X1 back due to its peeling skin that was not an issue to me but the lack of a firmware update is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 3, 2011 Share #228 Â Posted February 3, 2011 Douglas, it's not "absolute crap" it's reality. Sorry if that bothers you but nobody - least of all Leica - made you rush to the shop with a fistful of tenners rather than sitting back for a month or two and waiting for the bleeding edge to coagulate a little before making an informed decision whether or not to buy. Â I stand by what I said. Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasco Posted February 3, 2011 Share #229 Â Posted February 3, 2011 Bill your comment does not bother me at all, its just your opinion as you see it and it obviously is different than mine. I purchased the camera going by past experience with Leica cameras as I have had no problems in the past .will I sell the camera no, like I said I can live with the autofocus and the image quality is superb. will I buy Leica cameras again, not so sure. Â all the best Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpage Posted February 3, 2011 Share #230 Â Posted February 3, 2011 @Ecaton - I've used M cameras for a number of years and I can appreciate the difference. Would I like a DOF scale on an X1? Sure. But the X1 issues, in my view, are no where near as onerous as they are made out to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted February 4, 2011 Share #231 Â Posted February 4, 2011 I do... and zone focus on a M with a proper depth of field scale is a lot faster than with the X1. Â And yet you somehow manage to take some really great images with the X1....as your flickr page shows.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted February 4, 2011 Share #232 Â Posted February 4, 2011 I'm having trouble reconciling the complaints about focus speed with the typical images Leica users are taking...of their cats and grandchildren....How in the world did photography ever manage in the days of the Speed Graphic? Â Maybe my X1 focuses faster than all yours but I'm not having any problems shooting street, candid or low light....This is really about never being happy, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.g Posted February 4, 2011 Share #233 Â Posted February 4, 2011 I've had my X1 for a week now - before I got it all I read was doom & gloom - wouldn't focus, not solid, buttons too loose, etc.... After one week I'm wondering if I bought an X1 or somehow received an X1.2. Sure it could focus a little faster but so could my M9 (if it had autofocus). It seems the X1 brings a measured sensibility to shooting - it's not a camera for snapping away pic after pic after pic without thought. It requires a little deliberation and the photos are better as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PayPerView Posted February 4, 2011 Share #234 Â Posted February 4, 2011 I've had my X1 for a week now - before I got it all I read was doom & gloom - wouldn't focus, not solid, buttons too loose, etc.... After one week I'm wondering if I bought an X1 or somehow received an X1.2. Sure it could focus a little faster but so could my M9 (if it had autofocus). It seems the X1 brings a measured sensibility to shooting - it's not a camera for snapping away pic after pic after pic without thought. It requires a little deliberation and the photos are better as a result. Â funny, I think mine is V1.2 as well, even though I've had it about a year! Â SItting on the shelf near my M9 might have improved it...I'm not sure. Â But I am reaching for it more and more....I even bought a beautiful new JnK case, black with red stitching. Â I don't want to give it up to send back to Leica to do something about the peeling skin (not that bad) and the batter compartment cover that is not exactly flush as it should be to the body...but a minor thing overall. Â I still need more practice and have to leave my DSLR and M9 home and just use the X1 a little more.. Â But the images....blow me away... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted February 4, 2011 Share #235  Posted February 4, 2011 as a.g says :It requires a little deliberation and the photos are better as a result.  I bought my X1 (to have my first digital camera beside my m7) about 4 weeks ago. Having read all the discussion I tested it in the shop. It's true, it is not a quick AF. Manual focus is not very workable (not sure it is the correct word) but I made some trials setting it at 2m (or 3) and f8 with a 36mm equivalent lens...photographers do not need more explanation. X1 can be improved as everything in life, but it is not so "terrific bad" as someone says, just my opinion.  What a.g says is in my opinion THE real advantage for this camera: first think, than shoot. robert  PS when I use my (father's) Rolleiflex my focusing is even slower... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted February 4, 2011 Share #236 Â Posted February 4, 2011 And yet you somehow manage to take some really great images with the X1....as your flickr page shows.... Â Thank you for the compliment. Yes, I do really love the camera still... but I just hope for it to get even better so I'll be able to use it in more situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosecpf Posted February 5, 2011 Share #237 Â Posted February 5, 2011 Hmmmm, liking your M8 that much huh? Nothing wrong with the GF1 for sure. I just bought a G2 so my girlfriend will go out photographing with me. It was either that or a DSLR for her, and I hate DSLRs, so G2 it was. Not a bad camera though I like the GF1 better. Â In all fairness Carlos, the first shipment of Leica X1s were sent about a year ago. Â Hey John, Â I am really loving my M8! What a great camera! You are right regarding the X1 shipping date, but I was referring to the camera release date. At that time the AF "problem" was already in place, so Leica did have 17 months to work on it until now. Â What intrigues me is that in one issue of LFI magazine last year, a Leica employee (perhaps an engineer) clearly mentions in a interview that it was not possible to improve further the AF speed via firmware because the sensor was not designed for contrast detection AF, but for phase detection only. So it was a hardware related issue, not a software one. In the case of the FW update rumors becoming true, it seems that Leica didn't know what they were talking about at that time. Perhaps the X1 was released to the public while still in beta phase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosecpf Posted February 5, 2011 Share #238  Posted February 5, 2011 Before I bought my X1 I did research on the product, tried it in the shop and was totally aware of what I was getting into. Taking the investment into account it seemed like a wise thing to do, the research and stuff. Seems like lots of users are using the slow auto-focus etc. as an excuse, a self justification to just go out and by the next best and newest toy on the market. As for firmware update.... the camera is barely a year old. Most of these abondeners and purchasers of the X100, 4/3 will be complaining about this that or the other after they have been using it for over 8 months and Nikon/Canon/Pentax or whomever introduces something new, again as a self justification, nothing more nothing less. Upon buying the X1 you could of known what you were getting into pretty easily, but I guess it's hard to admit to yourself and others that you're just a gadget freak always wanting the newest of the newest despite it's known shortcomings, after all give it six months and I'm confident you will have something to complain about again  I don't know about other X1 ex-users, but I did plenty of research and also tested the camera at the store before buying. Nevertheless, the real shortcomings of this (great) camera only became obvious to me in real world situations. If you can make a perfect assessment of the camera after trying it for a couple of minutes at the store, kudos to you. I just cannot.  Moreover, I really thought that after using the camera for a while and getting used to it, I would master it and overcome it's shortcomings... That happened in the past with other cameras I had. Well, with the X1 I tried that and just could overcome the problems. Perhaps due to my own shortcomings... anyway, simply put, the X1 was not for ME. I am happy I realized that based on my own experience and not based on online reviews or third-party opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted February 5, 2011 Share #239 Â Posted February 5, 2011 Â What intrigues me is that in one issue of LFI magazine last year, a Leica employee (perhaps an engineer) clearly mentions in a interview that it was not possible to improve further the AF speed via firmware because the sensor was not designed for contrast detection AF, but for phase detection only. So it was a hardware related issue, not a software one. In the case of the FW update rumors becoming true, it seems that Leica didn't know what they were talking about at that time. Perhaps the X1 was released to the public while still in beta phase. Â This is what I think and I'm afraid of: at the end the problem is not easy to be solved ( if not impossible ) via SW. I do not believe at leica they are so masochist to leave many customer unsatisfied just for thei own pleasure! As for me I'm trying to exercise, to test various way to focus and to understand when I can rely on the camera (landscape? yes please, portraits? maybe, running dogs ?...) and when not. Â robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted February 5, 2011 Share #240  Posted February 5, 2011 Hey John, I am really loving my M8! What a great camera! You are right regarding the X1 shipping date, but I was referring to the camera release date. At that time the AF "problem" was already in place, so Leica did have 17 months to work on it until now.  What intrigues me is that in one issue of LFI magazine last year, a Leica employee (perhaps an engineer) clearly mentions in a interview that it was not possible to improve further the AF speed via firmware because the sensor was not designed for contrast detection AF, but for phase detection only. So it was a hardware related issue, not a software one. In the case of the FW update rumors becoming true, it seems that Leica didn't know what they were talking about at that time. Perhaps the X1 was released to the public while still in beta phase. Which issue was that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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