pico Posted March 26, 2011 Share #1 Posted March 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I photographed a lecture by a photographer yesterday. The 35mm Summilux that has served me well for forty years with film was an utter failure wide-open on the M9. It was impossible to get accurate focus. I ended up using a tripod shooting with ISO 1600 @5.6 to get sharp images. Does the 35mm Summicron suffer from focus shift? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Hi pico, Take a look here 35mm V2 Summilux to be retired - M9 issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted March 26, 2011 Share #2 Posted March 26, 2011 Very little, according to previous posts on the topic. When Tim Ashley had his 35/1.4 aspheric problems, I think Leica told him the 28 Elmarit aspheric had none, and both the 28 and 35 Summicrons very little. I know the original 35 Summilux wasn't very good wide open (very noticeable coma), but I'd have thought by 2.8 it should have been reigned in. Haven't used the lens, but it's clear the current round of aspherical lenses is greatly improved over the offerings of those days. We were lucky to buy Leica when we did, pico. How many other manufacturers offered lenses that were still worth shooting for that long? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 26, 2011 Share #3 Posted March 26, 2011 I photographed a lecture by a photographer yesterday. The 35mm Summilux that has served me well for forty years with film was an utter failure wide-open on the M9. It was impossible to get accurate focus. I ended up using a tripod shooting with ISO 1600 @5.6 to get sharp images. Does the 35mm Summicron suffer from focus shift? I tested my Summicron-M 35 Asph for focus shift when I got it. I could not detect any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 26, 2011 Share #4 Posted March 26, 2011 pico, May be your 35mm Summilux needs a CLA? I would consider that before retiring the lens. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 26, 2011 Share #5 Posted March 26, 2011 The Summilux 35 mm that has served me well for forty years with film was an utter failure wide-open on the M9. It was impossible to get accurate focus. [...] Does the Summicron 35 mm suffer from focus shift? Whatever your problem was ... it definitely wasn't focus shift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted March 26, 2011 Share #6 Posted March 26, 2011 I photographed a lecture by a photographer yesterday. The 35mm Summilux that has served me well for forty years with film was an utter failure wide-open on the M9. It was impossible to get accurate focus. I ended up using a tripod shooting with ISO 1600 @5.6 to get sharp images. Does the 35mm Summicron suffer from focus shift? HI pico You need a ruler at 45 degrees and the lux... You could have focus shift or some other 'registration' problems. Try at 2m and 4m... All wide aperture lenses suffer from some focus shift, depending on abberation etc, the M9 or M8 is much less forgiving and easier to demonstrate (or test). Noel P.S. My M8 (friend, you cannot chose your friends on basis of tech they use) had to have his type 2 rebuilt, when he bought it 2nd hand... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 27, 2011 Share #7 Posted March 27, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) The OP refers to the Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph (# 11870, 1966-1995) i guess. The only asph lens was the Noctilux 40 years ago. Mine needs some care in PP at f/1.4 but focusing is accurate enough on the R-D1. I mean on the field, not with rulers or brick walls. Never used it on the M9 though. Some adjustment may be needed presumably. Focus on the bottle at 0.7m here, f/1.4. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/147278-35mm-v2-summilux-to-be-retired-m9-issues/?do=findComment&comment=1626458'>More sharing options...
adan Posted March 27, 2011 Share #8 Posted March 27, 2011 lct - how did you focus a pre-ASPH 35 Summilux to 0.7 meters? All the ones I've ever seen are limited to 1.0 meter minimum focus - that's the reason I got rid of mine. I liked it in most other ways, and did not have focus problems per se, just the "glow" so evident in your examples. Pico's post confuses me slightly - there was no "v.2" of the pre-ASPH Summilux. Just one optical design from introduction until discontinued. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted March 27, 2011 Whatever your problem was ... it definitely wasn't focus shift. How do you know. Were you there? The focus was way off. Even on a tripod. Now, there is a little more friction focusing this lens on the M9 than on the M7, or M4, but that should not effect focus when I have the image perfectly aligned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 27, 2011 Share #10 Posted March 27, 2011 Sean Reid demonstrates focus shift for the 35 Summicron Asph at f2.8 and f4. My lens does the same. But, insignificant in prints, which is all that matters to me. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted March 27, 2011 Pico's post confuses me slightly - there was no "v.2" of the pre-ASPH Summilux. Just one optical design from introduction until discontinued. There may not have been optical changes, but there were body changes in dimensions and materials. If I recall correctly, the V1 was chrome, others were black and titanium. Leica warns that some 35mm pre-ASPH summilux lenses (ELC?) will not mount properly to the M9. (Mine has a very slight increase in drag at one point that doesn't bother me). To me it indicates enough variance so that there was a V1 and a V2 version because the rear focusing ring and surround changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 27, 2011 Share #12 Posted March 27, 2011 ...All the ones I've ever seen are limited to 1.0 meter minimum focus... My copy goes below one meter Andy. Not sure if it reaches 0.7m though. 0.8 or 0.9m more probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted March 27, 2011 Share #13 Posted March 27, 2011 The markings show 1m and 3ft. My copy does go to the 3ft mark. The lens was in production for 35 years, 1960 to 1995. There appear to be three Leica catalog numbers, 11870, 11871 with goggles for the M3, and the 11860 Titanium version. Most of them were made in Canada. Mine shows no noticeable focus shift in actual use, although it is very soft at f1.4 with plenty of ca and flare. But it sharpens up in a hurry and becomes totally acceptable imo by f2.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 27, 2011 Share #14 Posted March 27, 2011 pico, you say the lens tightens up at one point on the M9 where it didn't on the M7. It's the same lens, so if it's different on the M9, that would indicate that it's one of the ones whose shroud needs adjusting by Leica. Optically, it was the same design all the way through. Where the shroud went wasn't important since it fit all the M's to that time. Now with the M9, the shroud on some specimens can contact the body. It's not a different version, and it's not out of tolerances, it's just that the shroud doesn't fit quite right with the M9. Take a look into the body opening and see whether there isn't a point of contact between the shroud and the body. There may be focus shift, but the lens was never great wide open. It's okay on cropped cameras, but full-frame digital just shows you what's always been there. I've never seen anyone complain of focus shift on the pre-aspheric 35 Summilux. But coma is horrendous wide open. Best bet isn't to sell it but to send it to Leica, telling them the symptoms; they'll fix the shroud (if I'm right) and let you know of any other problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 27, 2011 Share #15 Posted March 27, 2011 Of course it has focus shift. It's unavoidable with a fast lens of that design. It also has lots of coma and veiling glare, so its focusing at 1.4 is moot. (That may be the OP's real problem.) My experience with the lens was that it was OK from f:4 on. But my v.4 Summicron was pretty OK at f:2 and all right at f:2.8, so I dumped my 'lux. This was in Kodachrome days, so I wanted more speed. The Summilux ASPH v.1 filled the need (sorry, "want"). The lens was fine because the depth of the multi-layer emulsion hid the focus shift. Not so with the M8 and the M9. So when I understood that a revised version was coming, I sold the 'lux and relied for some time on the v.4 'cron, which gives remarkably good results with the M9. Eventuallly, I acquired the new Summilux v.2, which is a superlens. The v.4 Summicron has no bothersome amount of shift even on a digital diet. I have no experience of the Summicron ASPH, but I would presume that behaves in a similar fashion. The speed of the 'lux ASPH v.2 is strictly speaking unnecessary, because we are off Kodachrome now. But it is a lovely lens, competing for bodycap position with the 50mm Summilux ASPH, another small miracle. I still use the old 1983 'cron occasionally because it's so utterly compact. Stop worrying. The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 27, 2011 Share #16 Posted March 27, 2011 Whatever your problem was ... it definitely wasn't focus shift.How do you know. Were you there? The focus was way off. Even on a tripod. I know because focus shift doesn't occur at full aperture. It happens when stopping down. So while your lens sure suffers from focus shift, it still cannot be the reason for your focus being off as you were using the lens at full aperture. Instead, you simply have a misadjusted lens (or camera). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted March 27, 2011 Share #17 Posted March 27, 2011 I photographed a lecture by a photographer yesterday. The 35mm Summilux that has served me well for forty years with film was an utter failure wide-open on the M9. It was impossible to get accurate focus. I ended up using a tripod shooting with ISO 1600 @5.6 to get sharp images. Does the 35mm Summicron suffer from focus shift? Hi Lots of them do have interference with M8 or M9, dont recommend a nail file... You were correct to call it a V2 lots of people think Leitz did not tell every thing when they improved the contrast conta jour in 1969 or so. Goodness knows how bad the V1s were.... Late ones were probably multi coated so there should really have been a V3 as well, but that is just picky old me If you streatch an elastic band into the clamp on grouve and use a12526 hood it transforms the little lens, most of the time... Noel P.S. The spec for the non M3 ones was 65 cm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 27, 2011 Share #18 Posted March 27, 2011 ...There appear to be three Leica catalog numbers, 11870, 11871 with goggles for the M3, and the 11860 Titanium version. Most of them were made in Canada... I know of 7 models and 5 catalog numbers but i may be wrong. - 11860 (1992?): Titanium w/o goggles; made in Germany. - 11869 (1961-1966): Black paint with chrome front rim w/o goggles; made in Canada; same catalog number as the latest pre-asph titanium 50/1.4. - 11870 (1961-1966): Silver with chrome front rim w/o goggles; made in Canada. - 11870 (1966-1995): Black anodized w/o goggles; made in Canada and Germany. - 11871 (1961-1966): Silver with chrome front rim and goggles; made in Canada. - 11871 (1966-1995): Black anodized with goggles, made in Canada. - 11872 (1961-1966): Black paint with chrome front rim and goggles; made in Canada. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 27, 2011 Share #19 Posted March 27, 2011 ...You were correct to call it a V2 lots of people think Leitz did not tell every thing when they improved the contrast conta jour in 1969 or so.... Late ones were probably multi coated so there should really have been a V3 as well... Hi Noel yes the latest anodized black and titanium are multicoated. Contrast is better but flare is still a concern, less so than with the CV 35/1.4 SC though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted March 27, 2011 I know because focus shift doesn't occur at full aperture. It happens when stopping down. So while your lens sure suffers from focus shift, it still cannot be the reason for your focus being off as you were using the lens at full aperture. Instead, you simply have a misadjusted lens (or camera). IOW, the lens' focus is optimized for shooting wide open, and what I saw is as good as it gets on a digital sensor (wide open). Jaapv warned me once that I must re-orient my view having just come to digital from decades of film. I fear I have become hyper critical, or I am maladjusted (Hey, ya think that 65 year old eyes might need adjustment? ) Today I will do some more work wide open at various distances, become oriented. Thank you for your help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.