M9 Import Sharpening in Lightroom 3.3

[MaxJ1961]

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What settings are you using? I have been using the following, which a friend says looks a little oversharpened in 4x6 prints:

 

Amount: 25

Radius: 1.6

Detail: 25

Masking: 30

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[otto.f]

Try Radius 1.0, this maybe the cause of oversharpening, the other figures aren't exaggerated. I never use sharpening though, this is how I can retain and evaluate the different the character of my lenses. The sharpening tool makes it relatively worthless to use a Leica IMHO, it levels off your photo's to images that could have been made with any camera. My (default) settings are:

Amount: 0

Radius: 1.0

Details: 25

Mask: 0

[hoppyman]

Amount 0 means the other settings are irrelevant.

Radius 1.0 or less is better suited to high frequency images, such as foliage. ~1.5 is better suited for people.

Details you can pull down, no problem

Mask at 0 means all of the image is affected. Not necessary. Mask is your friend especially if you want to use stronger sharpening settings but not affect smooth areas eg. skin or sky.

Remember all of this is Capture sharpening. Really largely intended to restore what is lost in the analog/digital conversion. Your print output will be affected more by your Print settings.

Also do keep in mind that noise reduction settings are inter-related with sharpening. If you change one a lot it will affect the other. Use the 1:1 preview to see what's going on.

 

In the Develop module, try the sharpening presets as a starting point. There's one for faces and one for scenery. You can reduce the settings but try for yourself.

When doing sharpening and/or noise reduction be sure to view at 1:1. Holding down ALT key (PC) when you move the sliders will show you the effect and areas affected in Real time.

 

Try Radius 1.0, this maybe the cause of oversharpening, the other figures aren't exaggerated. I never use sharpening though, this is how I can retain and evaluate the different the character of my lenses. The sharpening tool makes it relatively worthless to use a Leica IMHO, it levels off your photo's to images that could have been made with any camera. My (default) settings are:

Amount: 0

Radius: 1.0

Details: 25

Mask: 0

[zlatkob]

What settings are you using? I have been using the following, which a friend says looks a little oversharpened in 4x6 prints:

If a photo lab makes your 4x6 prints, they may be doing further sharpening at the printing stage, making your prints look oversharpened.

 

In LR, I usually use these default settings:

Amount: 10

Radius: 1.0

Detail: 25

Masking: 0

[250swb]

What settings are you using? I have been using the following, which a friend says looks a little oversharpened in 4x6 prints:

 

Amount: 25

Radius: 1.6

Detail: 25

Masking: 30

 

I wouldn't use any settings other than the very low default ones that Lightroom sets. I never even look at sharpening when importing an image. You just need to know your picture is sharp and give yourself something reasonable to look at when post processing.

 

All proper sharpening should be done based on the final image size. So if ALL your images are forever going to be 4x6, yes you could apply sharpening at the import stage, but those same settings may be very low for a 12x16 or very high for a web image. Which means each time you want to use a size other than 4x6 you have to 'reprocess' the image. So do any adjustments like colour, contrast etc and save the image with very low default sharpening as a TIFF, and use that as the master image from which all other sizes and levels of sharpening are made.

 

Steve

[hoppyman]

The sharpening options in the Develop Module are for capture sharpening. OUTPUT Sharpening is used if exporting a file as a different format and there are options in PRINT sharpening for different media. In both cases Lightroom intelligently applies the correct amount adjusted for resolution or print size without you having to think about it. The Print Module is quite intelligent in that it optionally applies the correct sharpening for the chosen output while also sizing without downsampling, unless you choose a fixed PPI and there is really no good reason to do that (if printing on an inkjet at home).

 

If you are having your 4x6 prints made commercially try the suggested Capture sharpening settings but use no Output sharpening and see how you go. In tiny prints a great deal of subtle adjustment is not necessarily still obvious any way. Try a couple of typical shots with different output sharpening???

 

As always Lightroom effects are non-destructive and reversible until you chose to export as a different format. Especially for small prints such as these there is really no good reason not to work entirely from your DNG original too. No need to convert to a TIFF or PSD or JPG either unless you are doing complex editing requiring Photoshop. The DNG is the perfect master. For commercial printing, OK you need to export some JPGs at the right resolution, size, colour space usually.

 

You may well find that you want to use less than those suggested preset defaults, but you should understand just what the controls do. Also looking at the effect at anything other that 1:1 is very unreliable (but does actually function as of Process 2010).

You should be able to see the effect you want but not the halos at 100%

 

 

Amount is pretty self explanatory and acts like Unsharp Mask.

Radius can be previewed with the Alt key as mentioned. smaller number means it has more effect on fine lines/sharp edges and less on soft edges. Larger setting has more effect on soft edges. All of the effects (halo sizes) have been refined in LR3.3.

 

Detail slider suppresses the halos 0 the most and 100 none. So a lower number lets you use a higher Amount if wanted, without seeing the halos.

 

Masking controls which areas are affected. Open an image at 100%, use the ALT key (PC) and you can see what is affected or concealed. The higher the setting the more the smoother areas are protected. Perfect for portraits.

Finally don't forget that Noise reduction also affects sharpening and vice versa.

[jaapv]

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All proper sharpening should be done based on the final image size. So if ALL your images are forever going to be 4x6, yes you could apply sharpening at the import stage, but those same settings may be very low for a 12x16 or very high for a web image. Which means each time you want to use a size other than 4x6 you have to 'reprocess' the image. So do any adjustments like colour, contrast etc and save the image with very low default sharpening as a TIFF, and use that as the master image from which all other sizes and levels of sharpening are made.

 

Steve

I think that concept of capture sharpening is overtaken by newer insights, Steve. Capture sharpening is the same regardless of the size of the print, but is dependent on the frequency range of the image. The purpose of capture sharpening is to provide and optimally, artefact-free basis for creative and output sharpening later in the process. Those two, and above all are dependent on the output size (and printer variables and output medium): I have a rather elaborate post in the M9 FAQ that I will quote here for convenience. Many settings and procedures.are similar or the same in LR. See the last part of the quote.

 

 

Question:

 

What is a good way to sharpen my images?

 

 

Answer:

 

 

Many users still use single-pass sharpening. Nowadays we know that , for maximum quality, we need a multi-pass sharpening workflow. If you apply single-pass sharpening you are attempting to account for image source, image content and output process in a single round of sharpening. Mulitipass sharpening takes account of the sometimes contradictory requirements of the different steps in sharpening.

To begin with we need a content optimized master image that can be used in further processing to apply creative sharpening and the finally sharpening for specifaic output.

 

I will take the case for ACR/CS5 because that is what I am used to.

 

Always work at 100% or larger!

 

The object of this capture sharpening is to create an artifact-free ( as far as possible) optimally sharpened file to process further. The image content can be divided in three types:

high-frequency images ( think of a landscape with plenty of leafy trees, large amounts of small detail) and

low-frequency images ( portraits with smooth skin) and

mixed images.

 

The three require different approaches.

 

The main tool here is the radius slider: The higher the frequency, the lower the setting 0.5 to 1.0

Low frequency images require settings between 1.0 and 1.5 That is about the maximum you can use.

 

Typical amount settings would be 15-30 for M9 files, 5-20 for M8 files.

 

The obvious problem is the mixed image. Think eyes and eybrows/hair in that low-frequence portrait.. There are several approaches.

 

1. Set the radius to 1.0 and try to correct in Photoshop

2. Set for low frequency in sharpening and use the correction brush on areas that need more detail

3. Make two smart objects for different frequencies and blend with a layer mask in Photoshop.

 

You can (in ACR 6.0) create an edge mask using the masking sider. Enlarge to at least 100% and hold the ALT key whilst sliding. You can see where the sharpening will be masked.

 

Then you can bring back detail by using the detail slider in the same way. It is not a simple slider, because it influences a number of parameters. Never mind what it does, the results are quite visible.

 

Then you can switch back and use the clarity slider to enhance your settings. Don't forget you have local control with the adjustment brush.

 

When you are in Photoshop you can sharpen creatively by enhancing areas. You can either use the sharpening brush or make a layer, (over)sharpen it, use a layer mask and play with opacity. In general, always sharpen on a layer, to work non-destructively.

 

 

There is also the trick of setting USM to a radius of 50 and threshold to 1, using the amount slider for control (normally around 20) to get midtone contrast enhancement to bring out extra detail, but I digress

When you have the image to your taste you flatten it and go to output sharpening.

 

For printing you can use your Scott Kelby technique (*) and learn the optimum setting by trial and error or you can delve into the theory and set the sharpening haloes mathematically.

The avantage is that you have an optimally sharpened image to start with so you won't have any nasty surprises.

 

 

 

(*) Use Unsharp Mask to taste and go to "fade unsharp mask" in the edit menu and fade 100% on Luminosity

 

 

Lightroom works a bit differently, but I do not have the expertise to explain that clearly .

 

 

LR addition by Marquinius

 

Lightroom works mostly like you describe. When you are used to the ACR (the RAW editor upon opening a photo in photoshop), you'll get used to LR in a jiffy.

 

For sharpening you have the same tools, to be found under DETAIL. What I do (in simple steps):

 

1) I import a photo in LR with the standard primary sharpening (very low, just to get rid of the softness resulting from RAW).

 

2) I work the photo until it's "perfect" (all conversions, editing, even side stepping to CS, whatever) BUT (and this is important) WITHOUT any further sharpening.

 

3) I make a virtual duplicate of the edited photo

 

4) I start my sharpening on this virtual, following the same logic Jaap just described.

 

In this way you always keep the unsharpened image separate from the sharpened ones: printing for screen asks for a different approach the sharpening for print (and for print you can even go to small print/big print, soft paper, toned paper, whatever). You use the unsharpened photo as a starting point.

 

Of course you could make a snapshot and return to that point every time you want to sharpen for a different output, but the you'd overwrite previous efforts.

 

 

Follow-up question:

 

How do I prepare an image for display on this forum?

 

Answer:

 

My favorite technique is to reduce the image size by 50% twice using bicubic and then reduce to a final 960 pixel maximum dimension using bicubic sharper. Then add Unsharp Mask at maybe a 15-30 amount at radius 1.0 and threshold 0 for a bit of sparkle. Go to Edit, fade Unsharp Mask, choose "Luminosity" in the pull-down menu.

 

Save as JPG using a quality that gives a maximum file size between 200 and 300 Kb, max 360 Kb.

[jgeenen]

I have very good experience with using amount values of 25-40 and radius of 0.8 to carve out details without oversharpening. I use details and mask values to adjust behaviour in critical image areas.

 

Johannes

[jaapv]

Try Radius 1.0, this maybe the cause of oversharpening, the other figures aren't exaggerated. I never use sharpening though, this is how I can retain and evaluate the different the character of my lenses. The sharpening tool makes it relatively worthless to use a Leica IMHO, it levels off your photo's to images that could have been made with any camera.

This opinion is based on the (understandable) misconception that sharpening does somehow really sharpen an image. It does nothing of the kind. It enhances edge contrast, which fools the eye into the perception that an image is sharper and it creates edge effects (halos) which, if dimensioned correctly, will give a sharper impression. Exactly like various developers do on film.

 

Btw if you set the sharpening amount to 0 the settings of the other sliders are irrelevant, as they will be applied in a quantity of...0

[MaxJ1961]

Thanks for your responses.

[viramati]

Have to say that with the M9 and at anything under 640iso I rarely touch the detail sliders as I find the files to be inherently sharp and realistic. Only at higher iso will I start using the mask and NR sliders

[hoppyman]

OK David, but does that mean you are using the original defaults or have made some new settings?

[Leicakillen]

Dear all,

I am confused about sharpening. I normally use the default settings (A 25, R 1, D 25 M 0) in Lightroom and print in standard sharpening and 360 ppt (too high?) on my excellent Epson 3800 on Matt Perma Jet paper (very good paper - better blacks than Epson Matte). I am very, very happy with the IQ of my M9 images. Sometimes I adjust the details going up with Amount to about 75 or so. I can then see some difference on the screen - but very seldom on the print. In other words - Lightroom changes are see on the screen but not on the print. Why?? Anyone else with similar experiences? I of course use only RAW.

 

Thanks for any comment.

/Anders

[otto.f]

Dear all,

I am confused about sharpening. I normally use the default settings (A 25, R 1, D 25 M 0) in Lightroom and print in standard sharpening and 360 ppt (too high?) on my excellent Epson 3800 on Matt Perma Jet paper (very good paper - better blacks than Epson Matte). I am very, very happy with the IQ of my M9 images. Sometimes I adjust the details going up with Amount to about 75 or so. I can then see some difference on the screen - but very seldom on the print. In other words - Lightroom changes are see on the screen but not on the print. Why?? Anyone else with similar experiences? I of course use only RAW.

 

Thanks for any comment.

/Anders

 

I'm not sure about differences in print with by settings of sharpening, but I found no differences between M8 and M9 in print with Epson 3800, Lustre and Glossy papers by Ilford, Canson and Hahnemühle. Both on a very high level indeed, which I would not even like to see sharper

[01af]

Sometimes I adjust the details going up with Amount to about 75 or so. I can then see some difference on the screen—but very seldom on the print. In other words—Lightroom changes are seen on the screen but not on the print. Why?

Because it's capture sharpening you're tinkering with.

 

If you want to change the appearance of the print then you have to adjust the output sharpening parameters. Do not set the output resolution bluntly to 360 ppi but to the accurate value. Then you can choose between low, standard, or high degree of output sharpening. It's rather basic but it covers what most people will ever need. The differences between these three built-in levels are fairly subtle but should be visible in properly processed prints. If you want more degrees of freedom for output sharpening than Lightroom has to offer then you'd have to go for 3rd-party software, like e. g. Nik Sharpener or PixelGenius PhotoKit Sharpener.