neila Posted January 28, 2007 Share #1  Posted January 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I went to a Christening yesterday and am very pleased with how good the M8 is in low light/available light conditions. These shots are pretty much out of the camera.  As noted here before, blacks (amongst other colours) come out purple...  The last shot is my son wearing a jet black shirt with black T shirt underneath and also my wife with a moss green jacket! I know the subject's been done to death here, so I need to experiment a little with processing and also the Leica filters should help... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14636-first-few-shots-with-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=154773'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2007 Posted January 28, 2007 Hi neila, Take a look here First few shots with the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted January 28, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted January 28, 2007 A quick white-balance would make it easier to see what is going on. Perhaps on the silver game toy in the last picture, and re-applied to the others. Note that in my experience, ACR (haven't tried the CS3 beta) and Lightroom are quite off at the moment, and you would be better off trying C1LE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share #3  Posted January 28, 2007 I have been playing, but the colours don't really come close.  The first shot here is my wife's jacket from my D-Lux 2, and the second from the M8 (having played with the colours - the shots above are from the camera). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14636-first-few-shots-with-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=154802'>More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 28, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted January 28, 2007 Yes, the magenta will remain, but the rest of the colours ought to look better. With tungsten lighting, it is hard to judge without a good white balance. My own filters are still on order. Sigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 28, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted January 28, 2007 Certainly a lot of magenta there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted January 28, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted January 28, 2007 Carsten is right - give C1LE a go, if you haven't already. Download Jamie Roberts' profiles (the very first - stickied - thread in this forum) and that will help considerably. You can fix the white balance within that app, as well. Â I went to a World War II remembrance that my 80-year-old father (1st Marine Division) spoke at a couple nights ago and lighting was very difficult. It was in a high school auditorium and I ended up with many too-warm shots, like you've got here. It was also the first time I experiended the magenta-shift in a serious way. Jamie's profile definitely help a lot. Â As an aside, it was great fun shooting an event like that with my simple little M8 and Noct, while the official photographer and a couple of serious amateurs lugged their DSLR rigs around. The event photographer used a Nikon D2X and 70-200 and fired a LOT of frames. I'm guessing from the shutter speeds I was getting - shooting primarily at f1 and still having to amp up the ISO to 640 and 1280 - that he was struggling with many of his shots being soft (he couldn't use flash during the presentation). The 70-200VR Nikkor is an outstanding lens (I have one) but it's definitely not a serious-low-light optic. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 28, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted January 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bottom line you will never get the colors absolute until you use a IR cut filter in tungsten light. There are no absolute profiles that can be made to do it , yes even Jamie will tell you the same thing. You can get close but critical is a no cigar without a IR cut filter. You simply have to cut the IR contamination BEFORE it hits the sensor, there is no way to profile it out completely and it would take magic pixel dust to do so and there simply is none. All colors are affected by this not just blacks, All colors under the rainbow will be affected by IR contamination to a certain degree , blues maybe worse than reds , yellows better than greens and so on. So shooting without the IR cut under tungsten which has a huge amount of IR light will always have very ill affects on all color. There is only one way to get around it and that is to eliminate the IR light that comes from your light source BEFORE it hits the sensor. And no i don't own a filter company. LOL Â As the saying goes . Otherwise your just pissing into the wind. Â Now Jamie and I are good friends and he has worked his tail off to get a good profile going and it does work to a certain degree but it is not absolutely going to fix it all solution. It's more a in a pinch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesper Posted January 28, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted January 28, 2007 With regard to adjusting WB, C1LE will tell you which areas are good to click on as a basis for adjustment, which ACR won't. Almost always quickly gives you a good starting point from which to fine tune. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted January 28, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted January 28, 2007 You simply have to cut the IR contamination BEFORE it hits the sensor, there is no way to profile it out completely and it would take magic pixel dust to do so and there simply is none. Â Don't tell me that is back-ordered from B+W as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 28, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted January 28, 2007 Magic pixel dust is back ordered Carsten , Expecting it in 2009. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted January 28, 2007 Share #11  Posted January 28, 2007 Is this nearer what you saw? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/14636-first-few-shots-with-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=155491'>More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 28, 2007 Share #12  Posted January 28, 2007 Bottom line you will never get the colors absolute until you use a IR cut filter in tungsten light. There are no absolute profiles that can be made to do it , yes even Jamie will tell you the same thing. You can get close but critical is a no cigar without a IR cut filter. You simply have to cut the IR contamination BEFORE it hits the sensor, there is no way to profile it out completely and it would take magic pixel dust to do so and there simply is none. All colors are affected by this not just blacks, All colors under the rainbow will be affected by IR contamination to a certain degree , blues maybe worse than reds , yellows better than greens and so on. So shooting without the IR cut under tungsten which has a huge amount of IR light will always have very ill affects on all color. There is only one way to get around it and that is to eliminate the IR light that comes from your light source BEFORE it hits the sensor. And no i don't own a filter company. LOL As the saying goes . Otherwise your just pissing into the wind.  Now Jamie and I are good friends and he has worked his tail off to get a good profile going and it does work to a certain degree but it is not absolutely going to fix it all solution. It's more a in a pinch   Ditto, more or less. The problem, essentially, is that two objects that seems to be the same color and tone can reflect IR to very different extents. A profile has no way of knowing how much IR a given part of the subject is reflecting. Jaime has done a great job trying to work around this however.  Cheers,  Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 28, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted January 28, 2007 And one more ditto--Guy and Sean are both completely correct, of course: the IR cut filter will give you the best colours possible (though there's still more profile work to be done), and in strong IR contamination, you really do need the filters. Â You can still save a lot of shots that aren't particularly IR contaminated with a good RAW conversion and profile, or where absolute colour fidelity isn't of prime importance. Â So the very worst thing about the shots you're showing here is that they just aren't white balanced at all for--what was it?--tungsten light? Do that first, with a different profile than the supplied one, and you should have a very usable image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share #14 Â Posted January 29, 2007 That's a lot of useful information - many thanks for taking the time to post. Â Yes Peter, that's pretty close. Guy, thanks for that reassurance on the filter - to be honest I'd prefer a simple solution like a filter rather than having to play too much with Photoshop or other computer programs. As a pure amateur, I like to just crop, add a bit of sharpening and lift the lighting if it needs it. Â It was interesting to see quite how much the colours had shifted on black and on my wife's green jacket. If you were taking pictures for a living (as many do here), I'd understand some disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter41951 Posted January 29, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted January 29, 2007 As Sean and Jamie rightly point out it is possible to rescue the odd shot, but it's not a satisfactory way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 29, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted January 29, 2007 {Snipped}Yes Peter, that's pretty close. Guy, thanks for that reassurance on the filter - to be honest I'd prefer a simple solution like a filter rather than having to play too much with Photoshop or other computer programs. As a pure amateur, I like to just crop, add a bit of sharpening and lift the lighting if it needs it. Â It was interesting to see quite how much the colours had shifted on black and on my wife's green jacket. If you were taking pictures for a living (as many do here), I'd understand some disappointment. Â Neila--a simple solution like a filter will not fix the white balance, which, as I said, is the very worst part of the shot (and is making the magenta worse). This is the first thing you learn when you take pictures for a living --film or digital, you need to respond appropriately to the kind of light you encounter. Â So if you don't want to shoot RAW, or mess around in Photoshop, you should at least learn to set a custom WB in JPEG to have a chance at neutral colour--filter or not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted January 29, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted January 29, 2007 ... So if you don't want to shoot RAW ... ! Â Whoa! Go stand in the corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share #18 Â Posted January 29, 2007 It's probably me that should go and stand in the corner! Â I realise that photography is not easy - but it does strike me as very slightly disappointing that colours are not right straight out of the camera. It's a bit like a brand new car not firing on all cylinders somehow. Anyhoo, the subjects been discussed a dozen times, so I'm not going to rehash it here. I love my Leica and will just have to figure out how to get that cylinder working for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 29, 2007 Share #19  Posted January 29, 2007 It's probably me that should go and stand in the corner! I realise that photography is not easy - but it does strike me as very slightly disappointing that colours are not right straight out of the camera. It's a bit like a brand new car not firing on all cylinders somehow. Anyhoo, the subjects been discussed a dozen times, so I'm not going to rehash it here. I love my Leica and will just have to figure out how to get that cylinder working for me!  Welcome to the wondrous, frustrating world of digital photography... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neila Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share #20 Â Posted January 29, 2007 I think that's the 'wondrous, frustrating world of M8'! My other Leica's and indeed my RD-1 didn't need much fiddling to get it right. Â I'll get there in the end I guess!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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