Switching a Leica X1 for a Leica Summicron 35/2+NEX5

[asoares]

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Hi,

[this is a copy of a post in another forum but I think it can be interesting here too]

Please allow me to share with you my experience and reasons for an odd decision: a switch of a Leica X1 for a Leica Summicron 35/f2+... a NEX5.

I bought the X1 there's some months because I wanted an high quality compact, with high IQ at all ISO levels (I frequently shot in the street at nigh). And the X1 is an excellent camera in this respect: it produces great files at all ISO levels (through 3200). Also, I am a Leica fan, but not enough to spend so much money on a M9 or even an M8.2. And the X1 is beautiful to have in hands and to use. But yes, it has the problems that you heard about. The main ones for me: very bad manual focus aid and focusing scale, loose dial buttons, and... no tilting display. I was waiting for a firmware update that enabled a better MF aid and scale (and also more reliable AF) that could at least minimise my annoyance. But it didn't come (until now) and I became frustrated.

Then I began to read about another setup, perhaps much more adequate to my photographic practice: the Sony NEX5+M adapter... The NEX has an adjustable display, and it has a good sensor.. I read a lot of opinions and reviews of the NEX+Leica m lenses and became fascinated with a possibility of having a leica lens on a small, high quality camera... and not having to ask for a bank loan...

I wanted an EFOV between 35 and 50mm, so I decided to look for an used 35mm (52.5mm EFOV) Leica pre-ASPH version 4 because of its size and weight and, of course, the price (about 50% less than the ASPH used). Before, I had bought a Zeiss Biogon 35/2 which I almost immediately returned because it was too big and the set would become "unbalanced" in my hands. With the current set-up, I must say that it is perfect for my needs. Its usability when used waist-level is just what I want. It's coat pocketeable, well... more or less like the X1.

After a couple of weeks, I am a lot more happier with the NEX+Cron than I was with the X1. Not that I can conclude right now that I am achieving better images from the nex than from the X1 (I didn't use it already in a real life photographic project) but but because its more enjoyable for me to use.

After reflecting on what to do with the X1, I decided to sell it (if someone interested see here). I wouldn't if I it wasn't for the money (a second hand summicron costs almost an X1... :S ). But I can't be sentimental: it's the instrument that matters, and the machine needs to get "tangled up" with you to produce nice photographs.

You can view a quick and dirty comparison of some shots between the Leica X1 and the NEX5+summicron 35/2 here.

 

I hope this can be of interest for some of you.

 

Regards,

antonio

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[jsrockit]

Congrats on your purchase. How do you like the 52.5mm equiv focal length vs. the 36mm on the X1? Could be nice to add a Voigtlander 21mm or 25mm f/4 to your set up for a set-up closer to the X1. They are only around $300 used.

 

The NEX certainly produces decent images with third party lenses, I just don't like its interface. Nothing beats shutter speed and aperture dials IMO.

[nigelb]

Thanks Antonio, nice to see someone else experimenting with the Nex. I'm not sure I would have forked out the cash to buy a Summicron to try it out, but am pleased to say I am happy with the Voigtlander lenses I already had. I think the CV 25mm f4 is going to be the one i use the most and can confirm it works well on the Nex. Don't think I could manage with just a 35. Early days for me yet, have not started to use the setup in anger yet and am learning to live with it. I have found the Nex tends to overexpose (for my taste) so now have my exposure compensation to -0.7ev. Also I have found the screen tends to mark easily so have a GGS protector on it now.

 

I have no problem with the interface now I have set it to what I want, I won't be using it a great deal. As long as I have it on aperture priority, aperture on the lens, focus magnify on the bottom button, ISO on the middle button and Exp comp in its usual place, I am happy. I am not a twiddler, so no need to delve into the menus.

[Jerry_R]

Don't you miss lack of AA filter in X1?

NEX won't give you such detailed photographs.

[h00ligan]

x1 has an aa filter afaik.

[Jerry_R]

"thank you very much for your interest in the Leica system.

The product management has intentionally left out the anti alias filter to obtain the best image quality as possible. Occurring moiré effects will be eliminated during the digital signal processing. The results are dynamic and sharp images with remarkably natural colours."

 

Leica X1 anti aliasing filter: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[h00ligan]

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from your thread, it was clarified.

 

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=33449413

 

does have an aa filter... per the designer.

 

Thanks though, I was excited for a minute :/

[phancj]

Everything is super here except for loss of AF (from slow AF to no AF hmm...), higher price (gulp!) and less intuitive controls. But if I own the nex I'd rather do what you did too coz the kit lenses are atrocious IMO. I have seen some shots (can't remember where) done with the nex and an array of leica lux lenses. Simply astounding iQ. I believe they were shot in HK or continental china.

 

Honestly, did you consider a used M8?

[steinweg]

I have both systems too, accurate manual focusing with the Nex+Cron isn't quite fast, that's the main problem for me. IQ is really decent though.

 

X1 ergonomy is much better, controls access is optimal

 

two different approaches to making photos for sure

[NZDavid]

Looks curious, for sure, but if it works, why not? How is the focusing? I am not a fan of AF at all (too imprecise) and still find RF is easiest for me.

[steinweg]

for focusing on the Nex you can use the zoom button which allows precise manual focusing on the screen. but still slower than with a RF

that's a compromise, it's lighter, cheaper but slower than an M8 and less fun to use , with still a decent IQ

[asoares]

Everything is super here except for loss of AF (from slow AF to no AF hmm...), higher price (gulp!) and less intuitive controls. But if I own the nex I'd rather do what you did too coz the kit lenses are atrocious IMO. I have seen some shots (can't remember where) done with the nex and an array of leica lux lenses. Simply astounding iQ. I believe they were shot in HK or continental china.

 

Honestly, did you consider a used M8?

 

Yes the loss of the AF is a drawback, nevertheless completely assumed as if I went for an M system... And in what concerns the controls, is just a matter of getting used to. Not a problem or even disadvantage for me.

 

Regarding the costs:

The X1 costed me around 1590€.

The NEX+cron+adapter=560€+1080€+70€=1710€ (and I got an e-mount 18mm/f2.8 bonus, which is not so atrocious...)

As you see, 120€ difference is not so much in these conditions.

 

Regards,

antonio.

[asoares]

Everything is super here except for loss of AF (from slow AF to no AF hmm...), higher price (gulp!) and less intuitive controls. But if I own the nex I'd rather do what you did too coz the kit lenses are atrocious IMO. I have seen some shots (can't remember where) done with the nex and an array of leica lux lenses. Simply astounding iQ. I believe they were shot in HK or continental china.

 

Honestly, did you consider a used M8?

 

Yes the loss of the AF is a drawback, nevertheless completely assumed as if I went for an M system... And in what concerns the controls, is just a matter of getting used to. Not a problem or even disadvantage for me.

 

Regarding the costs:

 

The X1 costed me around 1590€.

The NEX+cron+adapter=560€+1080€+70€=1710€ (and I got an e-mount 18mm/f2.8 bonus, which is not so atrocious...)

As you see, 120€ difference is not so much in these conditions.

 

I didn't consider the M8 because the quality/price relation as compared with the NEX is not so superior. I considered an M8.2. It would be my choice if it was not the price. I couldn't find an used M8.2 for less than 2500€. Then M8.2+35 Cron= 3500€, simply the double of my current setup which give very comparable results.

 

Regards,

antonio.

[phancj]

Somehow I feel dabbling in leica gear will entail higher costs somewhat.

 

Manual focus has to be slow on the nex compared to the M8. Loss of AF is not important to some but very important for others (like me).

 

Thats the precise reason why I havent made up my mind on the M yet and am taking my time.

 

If I get the nex it'll be when the e-mount zeiss AF lenses come out and they are proven good.

 

CJ

[nigelb]

Manual focus has to be slow on the nex compared to the M8.

 

Really? And you've tried this with a Nex and CV or Leica lens?

 

Loss of AF is not important to some but very important for others (like me).

 

Thats the precise reason why I havent made up my mind on the M yet and am taking my time.

 

Manual focus becomes quicker with experience and a little perseverence, maybe that's the problem with some people. Using a combination of manual focus and zone focus you get to know how accurate your manual focus has to be at a given depth of field which can make it quick. Of course the X1 does not make this easy, whereas the CV or Leica lenses with depth of field scales do, particularly with 35mm and under and smaller apertures. Most wide open 'bokeh' pictures I see are static anyway.

 

Strange how many iconic images, action as well as static, were sharp and taken before autofocus was dreamed of.

 

If autofocus is so important to you, I can't see how you are even considering an M.

[jaapv]

Yes the loss of the AF is a drawback, nevertheless completely assumed as if I went for an M system... And in what concerns the controls, is just a matter of getting used to. Not a problem or even disadvantage for me.

 

Regarding the costs:

 

The X1 costed me around 1590€.

The NEX+cron+adapter=560€+1080€+70€=1710€ (and I got an e-mount 18mm/f2.8 bonus, which is not so atrocious...)

As you see, 120€ difference is not so much in these conditions.

 

I didn't consider the M8 because the quality/price relation as compared with the NEX is not so superior. I considered an M8.2. It would be my choice if it was not the price. I couldn't find an used M8.2 for less than 2500€. Then M8.2+35 Cron= 3500€, simply the double of my current setup which give very comparable results.

 

Regards,

antonio.

If you think the results are on the same level - dream on.....

[phancj]

Really? And you've tried this with a Nex and CV or Leica lens?

 

 

 

Manual focus becomes quicker with experience and a little perseverence, maybe that's the problem with some people. Using a combination of manual focus and zone focus you get to know how accurate your manual focus has to be at a given depth of field which can make it quick. Of course the X1 does not make this easy, whereas the CV or Leica lenses with depth of field scales do, particularly with 35mm and under and smaller apertures. Most wide open 'bokeh' pictures I see are static anyway.

 

Strange how many iconic images, action as well as static, were sharp and taken before autofocus was dreamed of.

 

If autofocus is so important to you, I can't see how you are even considering an M.

 

AF is important for me for an AF system, like the X1 and the nex. I see no point in buying an AF body and using it with MF lenses, essentially crippling a good thing. I got the X1 to do AF and it does what I need it to do.

 

On the other hand the digital Ms allow for specialty lenses (lux, noct) and opens up possibilities for different look of images. Under these circumstances I am more than willing to do MF to get a different look, not to mention being designed exclusively for MF so sticking to intended use. I am currently playing with my Nikkor f/1/4Gs (35 &85) and really like the images plus they can all work seamlessly with AF. Hence I have put the idea of an M/lux combo on hold. The S2 is superb with AF but I am unwilling to dish out that amount for a hobby. The M9/noctilux may be what I ultimately end up with having seen Aslan Killinger's images on the LFI site. But this combo is a big purchase decision so requires careful thought. And it'll be a while before I can do MF proficiently since the last time was a decade ago.

 

I have heard zillions of talk like how iconic images stand the test of time but it is mostly for content and not strict image quality. I just like the look of great pics technically and nothing wrong with harnessing the latest and RIGHT technology to do it. I personally feel using a body like Nex with MF lenses is a step back. The only draw to the nex for me will be when the zeiss E-mounts come out. To each his own, but I for one do not subscribe to the notion that being able to do MF will make one a better photographer, I value convenience and results more than whether I am perceived to be proficient or not. And I know also that at F/1.4 or wider to have exact focus at that shallow dof I doubt anyone with any MF system can beat the AF systems of today, and do so consistently shot after shot in succession. My Nikkor 85mm f1.4G is so accurate its crazy. One shot one kill at 1.4. Try it with the nex and after several dozens successive images with MF on that screen the eyes will tire quickly. At least the M's implementation of the MF is more responsive and fun.

 

Meanwhile the combo of X1 during travel and DSLR for work and some specialized play makes me happy.

 

CJ

[nigelb]

I see no point in buying an AF body and using it with MF lenses, essentially crippling a good thing.

 

What!! And there's me thinking I was giving this camera a new lease of life, giving it's little brain something interesting and creative to do instead of its usual humdrum existence, when all the time I am crippling it. Thank you so much for your insightful comments.

 

Still I can look on the bright side. Now that it is crippled I may be able to claim disability and home care allowance for it.

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[jaapv]

. To each his own, but I for one do not subscribe to the notion that being able to do MF will make one a better photographer

Indeed it won't, but nor do I subscribe to the notion that photography was difficult or impossible before the advent of automation. It is just that our skills have shifted - from the inside of our heads to the inside our cameras....

[phancj]

What!! And there's me thinking I was giving this camera a new lease of life, giving it's little brain something interesting and creative to do instead of its usual humdrum existence, when all the time I am crippling it. Thank you so much for your insightful comments.

 

Still I can look on the bright side. Now that it is crippled I may be able to claim disability and home care allowance for it.

 

Come to think of it crippling is such a strong word....but I was typing between work. Sorry...

perhaps what I was saying is that being a machine for AF implementation predominantly it may not be the best for MF. I believe in thing sbeing built to be used the most optimal way, and the nex is built for AF mainly. I think the nex has a lot going for it if good E-mounts start rolling out. IMO there is no comparison in terms of operation between an M8/9 and the nex if MF is what you are doing, thats what I was trying to convey(Simply because M8./9 is designed solely for MF).

 

Indeed it won't, but nor do I subscribe to the notion that photography was difficult or impossible before the advent of automation. It is just that our skills have shifted - from the inside of our heads to the inside our cameras....

 

I never find MF difficult, but given a choice I prefer AF for speed and convenience. I am certain apart from diehard RF connosieurs many of today's hobby photographers will love to have an AF digital M. Given the astonishingly superb pictures the M9 is capable of and being a little cheaper than the D3x not to mention less heft, better portability, great workmanship, iconic brand, etc,etc not many embrace the M9 in favor of the top of the line Canikons.

 

Working pros have no qualms about using a equipment as a means to an end, but for rudimentary hobbyists like myself (apart from infrequent product shots) I like the convenience and quick gratification of having AF IF GIVEN A CHOICE. Which is why I am on the fence with the M9. I like the images, I like the build quality, there are many things I like but the single factor of lack of AF is a big hurdle in me absolutely loving it. really. And I am certain there are many like me.

 

CJ