Frame spacing issues, M6

[bwakel]

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I bought an M6 on eBay recently and I've been having consistent frame spacing issues with the rolls of HP5+ and XP2 that I've put through it. In general there is a large, consistent gap between frames although sometimes the gap appears to return to the normal frame spacing that I get from my Nikon FM2n.

 

Has anyone else experienced this problem? Is there a ready fix? I've tried following the various techniques for loading film that appear on the web, I've bent over the end of the film and tensioned the film using the rewind knob after loading and winding on a couple of frames but it doesn't seem to have helped.

 

Thanks

 

Barry

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[abrewer]

Hi Barry.

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Are you getting 36 exposures on a 36 roll? Or is it compromising that number as well?

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

[stunsworth]

Barry, one other thing. A wide angle lens will give less space between frames than say a 90mm. Is this a factor?

[doubice]

Barry, one other thing. A wide angle lens will give less space between frames than say a 90mm. Is this a factor?

 

I believe this will be the case only with true wide angle lenses, with deeply protruding rear elements. The latest retrofocus designs should project an image about the same size as other focal lengths.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[bwakel]

Hi Barry.

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Are you getting 36 exposures on a 36 roll? Or is it compromising that number as well?

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

 

Allan

 

I'm getting 34-35 shots on a roll which in itself is not an issue but scanning the negs is a real pain as they frames don't line up with those on my Nikon LS9000ED scanner.

 

Barry

[bwakel]

Barry, one other thing. A wide angle lens will give less space between frames than say a 90mm. Is this a factor?

 

Steve

 

I'm using a 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar and the spacing seems to be the same whatever focal length I've selected.

 

Barry

[stunsworth]

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Try a Voigtlander 15mm and you'll see what I mean :-)

[doubice]

Steve

 

I'm using a 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar and the spacing seems to be the same whatever focal length I've selected.

 

Barry

 

Barry,

 

The rear element of the Tri-Elmar sits at the same distance from the film plane, no matter which focal length is selected. That is the reason for identical spacing.

 

The difference in spacing has actually nothing to do with the focal length of the lens, rather with how close the rear element sits to the film gate. The smallest spacing will be on the old 4/21mm and 3.4/21mm Super Angulons, as well as the original 2.8/28mm Elmarit. Those lenses were designed before meter arms (M5, CL) and meter cells were installed between the rear lens element and the film plane.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[doubice]

Try a Voigtlander 15mm and you'll see what I mean :-)

 

Yes, Steve - the Heliar 15mm will produce a slightly larger negative area with smaller spacing, I own one (love it and can't wait to try it on the M8 when I gather enough courage to get one).

 

It's rear element however, is not as deep as the lenses I mentioned in my above post. The negative area will be smaller than those lenses, but larger than one taken with a 50mm or 90mm lens.

 

Cheers,

 

Jan

[rob_x2004]

Barry,

Noticed the same with th R6.2 and the R9, both were at some stage n.i.b. I figured it was an inexactness in the mechanical wind on caused by film tensioning or torsioning somewhere in the gizzards due to vigorous winding. I think I noticed it more if I had hurriedly wound on with a snap and maybe not pulled the film quite as far through the frame, but far anough to allow shutter release. Notice it less with a motor winder or driver. Never worried about it. We are talking only a fraction of a millimetre? If it is an older camera maybe there is parts wear or sticking and a sevice will clean it up a bit. If you can get scissor cut between frames I cant see it mattering. I believe the Labs autocut between the actual frames, not a measured distance from the leader so it shouldnt be a problem there either?

[cbretteville]

Barry, one other thing. A wide angle lens will give less space between frames than say a 90mm. Is this a factor?

 

Thank you Steve! You've just saved me a lot of head scartching. I've noticed this with the CV/15 on my M6 and was wondering when the heck was happening.....

 

Cheers,

- Carl

[bwakel]

Rob

 

I develop my own film so I'm not worried about the cutting issue. The issue is when I want to scan the negs, I have to align each frame individually as the spacing means that the frames don't line up with the neg holder. The gap between frames is about 5mm which is massive and more than twice the standard frame spacing so we're not talking fractions of a millimetre.

 

Barry

 

Barry,

Noticed the same with th R6.2 and the R9, both were at some stage n.i.b. I figured it was an inexactness in the mechanical wind on caused by film tensioning or torsioning somewhere in the gizzards due to vigorous winding. I think I noticed it more if I had hurriedly wound on with a snap and maybe not pulled the film quite as far through the frame, but far anough to allow shutter release. Notice it less with a motor winder or driver. Never worried about it. We are talking only a fraction of a millimetre? If it is an older camera maybe there is parts wear or sticking and a sevice will clean it up a bit. If you can get scissor cut between frames I cant see it mattering. I believe the Labs autocut between the actual frames, not a measured distance from the leader so it shouldnt be a problem there either?

[SoFi-Chaser]

Rob

 

I develop my own film so I'm not worried about the cutting issue. The issue is when I want to scan the negs, I have to align each frame individually as the spacing means that the frames don't line up with the neg holder. The gap between frames is about 5mm which is massive and more than twice the standard frame spacing so we're not talking fractions of a millimetre.

 

Barry

Hi Barry,

 

I get up to 39 pictures on a roll of colorslide-film with my M6 classic.

The difference between wide-angle (15CV) and tele-lens (Cron90) can be seen (i.e. the difference between two gaps is clearly visible, but there still is a gap), but 5mm is far too much.

Whenever you want to resell your M6 (but who does ) this might be seen as a big failure. So just think about having it fixed.

Should be only some minor adjustment for the customer-service.

 

Regards, and a lot of fun with your M6

 

Torsten

[Jean-Michel Komarnicki]

Hi, this is my first reply to anywhere on this site, so I may not know all the 'rules' or shortcuts used. Anyway, I have been using Leicas since the late 60's – an M3, M4 and M6. I have experienced the uneven spacing at different times with both the M3 and M4 (the M6 ismerely 13 years old!). The spacing issue has nothing to do with which lens you use. It is caused by a mechanical misadjustment; you need to take your camera to a reputable repair shop and get it adjusted. Get the shop also adjust your shutter and give you a list of the actual speeds – even adjusted some setting may be quite different from the number onthe dial. The M's are solid, but they do need regular maintenance.

Jean-Michel

[rob_x2004]

Yea? Five millimetres..thats not uneven frame spacing thats a service!

[haris]

Yup, 5 mm between frames on 35mm film are definately for sending camera to service. I don't get that space even on my MF cameras

[dfbldwn]

Barry,

 

Before sending your camera in for service, please try this.

 

1) After unloading a roll of film, cock the shutter.

 

2) Just before loading a new roll, rotate the take-up spool in the "wind-on" direction and see if it doesn't neatly "click" as if into a cog and become fixed (non-rotatable).

 

3) Proceed as you would when normally loading a roll of film.