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M8 with Metz 54MZ-4i and SCA 3502M4 in TTL mode

pesche

By pesche
in Digital Forum

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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I have been playing with the M8 + 54MZ-4i this evening and I cannot get the flash to turn up and down in power. I am using GNC mode. I did not really expect it to work by using the EV biasing on the camera and it doesn't. However, I did expect it to work using the EV biasing inside the trapdoor on the SCA3502 and again it seems to make no adjustment. There does not seem to be any facility on the flash body itself to adjust EV either + or -. Any ideas anyone?

 

Wilson

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Wilson,

Did you try to dial the EV down on the flash it self using the controls? Don't have a 54, but on the 44MZ2 that is how I do it with the D2. As far as I can see from the 54's docs (pg 105) you can do the same on it.

 

- C

 

Where the EV correction normally appears on the LCD screen, is replaced by the GNC symbol when you have managed to get the flash into GNC mode. There does not then appear to be any method of controlling the flash output with the control wheel. I am familiar with this on other SCA control units, which is why they have the switchable EV compensator behind the trapdoor on the SCA unit. If anyone else is using the 54MZ-4i, perhaps they would like to try and see if they think the slider alters the output - I don't think it does. I will put in a query to Metz Germany. They are usually pretty good.

 

Wilson

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dhoelscher

dhoelscher

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See the first page of this thread for the discussion: with the M8 and the 54 MZ 4i in GNC mode, no flash exposure compensation is possible.

 

Metz says that the combination of the 76 MZ "potato masher" flash with the SCA 3502 M5 module will allow flash exposure compensation with the M8's GNC flash control TTL mode.

 

DH

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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See the first page of this thread for the discussion: with the M8 and the 54 MZ 4i in GNC mode, no flash exposure compensation is possible.

 

Metz says that the combination of the 76 MZ "potato masher" flash with the SCA 3502 M5 module will allow flash exposure compensation with the M8's GNC flash control TTL mode.

 

DH

 

DH,

 

I had seen that but thought that referred to compensation from the camera and you could still get compensation at the flash - it seems not. The second problem on GNC is that if you are using the flash on Bounce, which is the whole point of using the 54MZ-4i rather than my SF24-D, you cannot use the secondary fill in flash, which I am accustomed to using most of the time. If you try to use it, the exposure is totally upset and the image very underexposed. The conclusion I am coming to is forget GNC and use A mode. The annoying thing is that I could have done that with my existing 40MZ-2 and did not really need to spend GBP 239 on a new flash. All I can hope for is that Metz come out with an SCA3503 adapter which might be a tad more intelligent. They did it for Contax cameras and the 3802 was a huge advance on the 382.

 

I have sold, just today, my "potato masher" 45CL-4. The idea of the M8 is to have a small unobtrusive camera and the thought of sticking a massive 76 on it does not appeal.

 

Wilson

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Riley

Riley

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I have been playing with the M8 + 54MZ-4i this evening and I cannot get the flash to turn up and down in power. I am using GNC mode. I did not really expect it to work by using the EV biasing on the camera and it doesn't. However, I did expect it to work using the EV biasing inside the trapdoor on the SCA3502 and again it seems to make no adjustment. There does not seem to be any facility on the flash body itself to adjust EV either + or -. Any ideas anyone?

 

Wilson

 

try this then

open the adapter door

use the switch upper left to engage control, push too the right I think

 

out of the middle switches you can engage +/- 1/3 stops with the top one

and +/- full stops to 3 stops with the lower

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Riley

Riley

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hmmm, ok Furrukh

why is it in the SAC 3502 manual then

ooh now i see it on page 8

lists 44mz2, 54MZ, 70MZ as irrelevant for functionality

and says all exposure compensation must take place on th LCD settings

so its back to activating ev mode: ev ON

YES YOU MUST TURN ev MODE TO ON

and using that

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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hmmm, ok Furrukh

why is it in the SAC 3502 manual then

ooh now i see it on page 8

lists 44mz2, 54MZ, 70MZ as irrelevant for functionality

and says all exposure compensation must take place on th LCD settings

so its back to activating ev mode: ev ON

YES YOU MUST TURN ev MODE TO ON

and using that

 

Riley,

 

The problem seems to lie in the fact that you can't turn EV to "on" while in GNC mode. The GNC appears on the LCD, where the EV on/off normally appears. I had hoped it might be transferred to somewhere else on the LCD but cannot find it. I have sent a formal query to Metz Germany yesterday evening.

 

To be blunt if I cannot get any EV compensation on GNC mode and to get reasonable functionality have to used A mode, I am going to be very annoyed. I have totally wasted GBP239 buying this new flash, which was recommended both by Metz' UK agent and by their own website. UK even said that to get full functionality, I needed the new 'i' model rather than the older 54MZ-4 non-i model, which I could easily have bought second hand, at less than half the cost. It would appear that this was complete rubbish, said to me either out of ignorance or in the desire to sell me a new flash. There is no difference in the (poor) GNC performance of both models on a Leica M8. It might also have been reasonable to mention that the GNC control was very limited and "dumb". My older 40MZ-2 does everything the 54MZ-4i does in A mode and more, as it also swivels in addition to bounce.

 

Wilson

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Well, the 54MZ4i gives me excellent exposure in GNC mode on the M8, does automatic fill-in if I want too and so on...

 

Not so dumb to me once you understand how it works. BTW, excellent article on the subject in the last LFI.

 

Pascal,

 

I am not arguing that the GNC mode works but there are frequent occasions when you need to compensate up or down and it looks as if you can't do it. I also find the fact that you can't use the secondary flash on GNC mode very disappointing. You really need this for taking people inside when using bounce to soften the flash. If you don't use the secondary flash when on bounce, faces are all "downlighted" from above which gives incorrect shadowing and looks unnatural. Bounce is why I want a Metz flash, as I already have a Leica SF24-D for direct flash. The majority of my flash photos are of people and when used indoors, direct flash is just too harsh with digital. it is very easy to get blown out highlights on pale faces. The SF24-D seems to be well known for its harshness, maybe as a result of its very compact head. This I assume, is why there are a number of rather awkward bounce and/or diffuser after-market attachments available for it.

 

Wilson

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dhoelscher

dhoelscher

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The other point I'd like to bring up with using flash with the M8 is that if you don't have a 486 filter on the lens, using any flash in GNC mode causes underexposure (probably because the flash emits significant amounts of IR light) ...

 

DH

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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The other point I'd like to bring up with using flash with the M8 is that if you don't have a 486 filter on the lens, using any flash in GNC mode causes underexposure (probably because the flash emits significant amounts of IR light) ...

 

DH

 

DH,

 

I would agree. Nearly all the ones I took yesterday needed pulling up a bit (probably from .75 to 1.5 stops) on Photoshop. However, I would much rather it underexposed than over-exposed. When my IR filters arrive (yawn) it will interesting to see what effect they have. No reply yet from Metz - I might give them a "hurry up".

 

Other than advising people to alter the EV on the flash head when used on GNC mode - has anyone actually accomplished this on a 54 MZ-4i + M8 and if so would be most grateful to learn how. I am not interested in being told what the manual says, as I have read it and the SCA 3502 manual plus supplement through from cover to cover, with little enlightenment but I would be interested in hearing anyone's practical experience in achieving EV compensation on the above combo.

 

Wilson

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dhoelscher

dhoelscher

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DH,

 

... The second problem on GNC is that if you are using the flash on Bounce, which is the whole point of using the 54MZ-4i rather than my SF24-D, you cannot use the secondary fill in flash, which I am accustomed to using most of the time. If you try to use it, the exposure is totally upset and the image very underexposed.

 

Wilson,

 

1) I am using the secondary reflector on my 54 MZ-4i with the flash in GNC mode (in spite of the manual claiming that this isn't possible!).

 

2) The underexposure that you reference is due to not using a 486 filter on your lens.

 

DH

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Wilson,

 

1) I am using the secondary reflector on my 54 MZ-4i with the flash in GNC mode (in spite of the manual claiming that this isn't possible!).

 

2) The underexposure that you reference is due to not using a 486 filter on your lens.

 

DH

 

DH,

 

I did try it last night and I found I was getting a little underexposure without the secondary flash but much more underexposure with it. However I have just gone and tried it again in a room with the curtains drawn and you are right - using the secondary flash seems to be working fine, if still a tad underexposed but bringing out highlights nicely - strange?????? Maybe the camera and flash just needed to get to know each other better - I left them coupled overnight :-}}

 

Wilson

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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I have been playing around with the M8 and 54 this evening. I have come across another irritating feature. When you switch off the flash unless you have put it into locked mode, it reverts to normal manual out of GNC and then you have to cycle through the modes and reselect GNC. However the main purpose of this post is to highlight the shadowing that the flash gives in close up. I attach two test images one without the diffuser and one with the wide angle diffuser. The flash was in direct i.e. not bounce mode and I was using a 35mm Biogon at f11. The distance was 1.2 metres. BTW the moire on the wallpaper is supposed to be there! The top image is diffuser on; the bottom no diffuser.

 

Wilson

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Ignore the first winge in my post above. Yes - when you switch the flash on it does appear to have reverted to normal manual but when you half push the shutter release, GNC reappears - remind me to put my brain in gear before opeing my mouth.

 

Wilson

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