heninger Posted January 21, 2007 Share #61 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sadly, here is another dead M8 to report. Â I got it Thursday morning, immediately stuck the battery in the charger and began the 3 hour wait to actually use the camera. Â Three hours came and went. The yellow light on the charger stayed on, meaning it wasn't charged. Â So I left it in for another 2 hours. Â Finally I took it out and stuck it in the camera (one can only be so patient - that damnable yellow light never did go off). The camera turned on, but I noticed the battery level on the top said it was almost dead (one bar). I shot about 8 pictures in a row on C and it died. The pictures were saved to the SD card, but now I can't get it to turn on. Â I charged the battery all night, nothing. Now its dead. Â I called the person I bought it from and he got me in touch with Leica in the US who is to send me a new battery overnight. It didn't come overnight, but maybe that is because they didn't send it "saturday delivery" so I guess I have to wait until Monday. Â I'm crossing my fingers its just a bad battery and my camera will be fine. I really looked forward to this camera and just barely passed up a 5D because this is the camera (and lens system) I want to use. Â This is extremely annoying. I would have easily waited another 6 months for things to be designed properly and have the proper QA procedures. Hell, I waited for about 7 years already, so what is another 6 months... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted January 21, 2007 Share #62 Â Posted January 21, 2007 The early R8 had a static problem too. In that instance, it occured in the winter and the static would reset the frame conter on the rear door. The cure was a quick trip to service where they modified something on the circuit board. I had a couple R8 done by Kindermann in Canada and it only took them an hour or so. It was also covered under warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share #63 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Wade, Â Sorry to hear it. Sounds like it might be the battery. Â Rob, Â That's very interesting, thanks. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtomalty Posted January 21, 2007 Share #64  Posted January 21, 2007 Rob  If I recall accurately,the problems with early R8's were more involved than sensitivity just to static. There was an issue with improper,or inadequate,shielding of certain electronic components. I had to go through 4 or 5 to get two properly functioning bodies at that time and to Leicas credit they didn't require me to go through a warranty process. They simply shipped new bodies. In one case,I had a new R8 and winder sitting on a counter in the studio and a nearby cellphone receiving a call triggered the camera to fire off an entire roll of film with no person within ten feet.  Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 21, 2007 Share #65 Â Posted January 21, 2007 I'm still troubled by the lack of electrical conductivity between different exposed metal parts of the camera. Even the two strap eyelets show a resistance on my example of about 180 ohms and similarly between other parts of the camera - hot shoe, tripod socket, even the metal lip the base plate hooks over. The corresponding readings on a D2x are all less than 0.1 ohms. Â It's one thing for the camera to be susceptible to static which a reset can fix, it's another thing entirely if it wipes out the electronics. Sadly, I don't think the finder magnifier tether is going to help, the aluminium oxide making up the black anodising doesn't conduct electricity. Â The problem with Mark's R8 was lack of EMC - electro-magnetic compatability - and a major part of any moden electronic design is preventing it being susceptible to external interference and also stop it radiating RF energy. Hold an M8 up against an AM radio and there's little in the way of interference compared to my 30 year old HP-55 calculator which I still use every day. The M8 has that interlock switch on the base plate which I expect is more to do with maintaining its EMC certification than anything else. The CE logo on the bottom of the camera (if it has one) shows that the camera complies with European standards. Â Finally, the on-off switch on the M8 doesn't actually interrupt the power, it simply causes the camera to go immediately into its sleep state and if it is writing to the card when you switch it off, it continues doing so until it's done. Seems to me that the main difference between the auto sleep mode and "off" is that when the power switch is set to "off", pressing the shutter release will not wake it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 21, 2007 Share #66 Â Posted January 21, 2007 ... it is of course always worth trying to reload the firmware to see if that will bring the camera back to life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 21, 2007 Share #67 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Finally, the on-off switch on the M8 doesn't actually interrupt the power, it simply causes the camera to go immediately into its sleep state and if it is writing to the card when you switch it off, it continues doing so until it's done. Seems to me that the main difference between the auto sleep mode and "off" is that when the power switch is set to "off", pressing the shutter release will not wake it up. Â Of course. It's a computer. The days of the Big Red Switch that could stop a PC from doing forever whatever crazy loop it had gotten into are behind us now. When the switch is set to "off," the 12 second timer is probably turned to zero, and the rest of the shutdown sequence goes almost to the bottom, turning off the "do you need me again" polling loop and everything but the time of day clock. Â scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted January 21, 2007 Share #68  Posted January 21, 2007 Mark  When it comes to the extremely high voltages of static electricity, surely even a relatively high resistance should be good enough to bleed things down? I would have thought that you still had a pretty good de facto Faraday Cage? High frequency E/M fields are of course a completely different matter - do I recall correctly that people were getting the odd coloured line on their DMR images in the presence of such fields (eg mobile phones)?  Not that I'm underestimating the damage static can cause - I well remember writing off my first CMOS Op Amp when building a kit audio amplifier! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 21, 2007 Share #69 Â Posted January 21, 2007 ... it is of course always worth trying to reload the firmware to see if that will bring the camera back to life. Â Ah, but that can't be done if the camera keeps thinking (incorrectly) that the battery is discharged. It won't risk a situation where it only succeeds in loading part of the firmware. Â This is yet another reason why a professional camera should have an external power input and allow operation with no battery. Laptops do that these days. They are dead when the battery goes strange, but remove the battery and hook up the AC charger, and you're back in business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 21, 2007 Share #70 Â Posted January 21, 2007 John, the problem with a high impedance path to ground is that the voltage on it can rise very quickly in response to an electrostatic discharge and punch through those CMOS gates which are nano-metres thick. Conventional wisdom is that you use clamp diodes on susceptible lines to present a low impedance path to ground when an ESD strikes, but there's no point sinking that energy to a point which is not seen by everybody else in the circuit as a true ground reference. Â Who knows? we're speculating but Sean's reported failing conditions do point to some sort of static trouble. Â Scott, very true, I'd missed that, even the Digilux 2 allows you to run it from a power supply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted January 21, 2007 Share #71 Â Posted January 21, 2007 ... it is of course always worth trying to reload the firmware to see if that will bring the camera back to life. Â Reading these posts remember me of something which could be an explanation for the "dead" M8s. When the first hand held computers were available (yes, in the middle age:rolleyes: ) we could enter into the firmware system allowing us to use these marvels in an extended way with not foreseen functions:cool: This was obtained by slowly reducing the voltage feeding the computer, i.e. putting it in a "strange" state. Then after doing that, pushing some keys could allow us to have another type of tool...in a stable maneer, even powered correctly. For the old timers here, it was the HP41... Mark perhaps could try to built an external power supply adjustable to verify (I'm still waiting for my M8 since 4 months)? Perhaps the M8 is not protected against a bad (low) voltage feed? Or M8 should get a nicely "off sequence" (like today computers)? Or some batteries are not enough good to deliver the right voltage near their end of charge? Sorry to be so long, just to give some searching ideas? All the best for all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted January 21, 2007 Share #72  Posted January 21, 2007 I keep thinking MGB too but it's really not like Lucas at all. Thanks for the interesting post.  Cheers,  Sean  Lucas earned this rubric honestly:  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  I used to buy tail light bulbs by the handful for my BSA since they lasted only about half an hour of use at night.  Chris Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  I used to buy tail light bulbs by the handful for my BSA since they lasted only about half an hour of use at night.  Chris ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/13940-uh-ohme-too/?do=findComment&comment=148161'>More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted January 21, 2007 Share #73 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Chris, Â a BSA is a rattle snake for taillights:D Â In my AH Froggy all Lucas components work very well - since I backed them up with spares... Â Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 21, 2007 Share #74 Â Posted January 21, 2007 clearly you guys never met with Italian electrics on a cold wet night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankK Posted January 21, 2007 Share #75 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Almost certainly the problems reported (not the shutter issue) are because a static charge has found the easiest path to earth through some of the interior electronics and not just the case. Â Received my M8 the other day and reading this thread makes me a bit worried that what one is wearing may be harmful to the M8 as well. Could a static charge from e.g. a fleece sweater perhaps cause the same effect? Â Cheers, Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share #76 Â Posted January 21, 2007 If static electricity is the problem then any number of static carriers might be problematic. Then again, I've been using M8s since September without a problem until now. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drjon Posted January 21, 2007 Share #77  Posted January 21, 2007 Received my M8 the other day and reading this thread makes me a bit worried that what one is wearing may be harmful to the M8 as well. Could a static charge from e.g. a fleece sweater perhaps cause the same effect? Cheers, Frank  There is a tremendous amount of guessing here; Leica will determine the cause but based on what has been reported here, it sounds very much like static has locked up the hardware and/or software. The remedy may simply be a hard reset of the camera but it appears that, unfortunately, there is no user-accessible hard reset button. Taking out the battery won't do it. I would not worry too much about your fleece; if you wear rubber soles there is no path to earth for the camera in your hand; if you are grounded, you are the shortest path. The danger is when the camera is in contact with something external (like a tripod without rubber legs) and you discharge yourself by touching the camera. I still believe the magnifier lanyard can help as an earth strap as the eyepiece screws into the case and the lanyard hooks onto bare metal. An earth strap attached to where the tripod screws into the base plate would work equally well.  Another trick that might be worth trying is taking out the battery and shorting out the internal battery pins. This can have the same effect as a hard reset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted January 21, 2007 Share #78 Â Posted January 21, 2007 Sean, thank you for the prompt and clear reporting of your experiences. It could well be static, and that could be confirmed if it happens to others now aware of thet potential cause ... rather than standing there scratching their heads in bewilderment. Â After some use now I'd whole-heartedly agree with you that I'd rather work through these issues than not have the camera at all. Â So far, mine (original batch w/new firmware) has been fine except for the rare ocassional banding. I will send it in eventually, but hope to hold fast for as long as I can until a majority of issues have been addressed ... so all the fixes can be done at once. Â Like you, I have other alternatives and frankly, the wedding season has wound down for awhile so the pressure isn't quite as great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 21, 2007 Share #79 Â Posted January 21, 2007 I still believe the magnifier lanyard can help as an earth strap as the eyepiece screws into the case and the lanyard hooks onto bare metal. Â Well, I've just measured the resistance of my lanyard. More than 100M ohms. Since you'd normally expect a grounding strap to be less than 1 ohm, we're some way off.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted January 21, 2007 Share #80 Â Posted January 21, 2007 I wonder if it could have something to do with the repairs that were done. It seems that this is mostly on repaired cameras and now that people are getting them back it is showing up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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