Leica SF 58 flash + M9 FAQ (invitation)

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Please post your hard won advice on the best settings to use on the SF 58 + M9 in various settings/situations. Please explain how to configure settings on both the flash and camera to make the best use of TTL, Automatic, and Manual. Direct and indirect flash, bounce as well as fill flash. If helpful you can refer to the illustrations and part/function numbers in the front and backcovers of the Leica flash instruction book, and inside the M9 instruction book.

I thought this would be relatively easy since I've used Canon and Nikon flashes for years, but Lieca and its instructions are driving me crazy. I love the M9 and can use it well without flash, and I can take good photos with the SF 58 IF I spend a lot of time using the LCD to get things right. This shouldn't be this hard. I understand the relationships of ISO/ f stop / shutter speed / distance, etc. but I'm finding it hard to plug in information to have the M9 and SF 58 work together. Some basic information (on how to read the #@%& manuals ) will be appreciated. Thanks!!!

[menos I M6]

Two things, to mention from me (I am not representative, as I just used the flash for a few days):

 

- if using uncoded lenses, make sure, you either set a matching lens in camera or set the flash' zoom to manual zoom (when using the M8, which has no internal lens code library, the flash zoom might zoom between different lenses erratically, as the camera recognizes different wrong codes from partly reading a screw on the lens mount instead of the proper 6-bit code).

 

- I use the SF58 mainly for fill, with insufficient ambient light, to get a proper shutter speed and ISO speed.

I start from these basic settings, when using light falls:

 

- ISO 320 (or 640, to balance ambient)

- shutter speed depending on focal length and subject (1/60 − 1/180 as a start)

- aperture between f2 - f4 (depending on lens, needed dof and ambient balance)

- I use either Autozoom in flash or manual zoom, if using an uncoded lens (or for modeling the light for softer or more concentrated illumination, if needed)

- I start from −1ev with a bounced head, to bring the light, where I want it

- I use a Nikon SB900 in SU-4 mode, if I need more light for background

 

I didn't like the secondary reflector with smallest output set to 1/4 (I might gel it with ND later and try again).

I really try, to stay at low shutter speeds and open apertures for maximum ambient and only little fill from the SF58 in general.

More experiments will come with more usage.

[ShotCapture]

Two things, to mention from me (I am not representative, as I just used the flash for a few days):

 

- if using uncoded lenses, make sure, you either set a matching lens in camera or set the flash' zoom to manual zoom (when using the M8, which has no internal lens code library, the flash zoom might zoom between different lenses erratically, as the camera recognizes different wrong codes from partly reading a screw on the lens mount instead of the proper 6-bit code).

 

- I use the SF58 mainly for fill, with insufficient ambient light, to get a proper shutter speed and ISO speed.

I start from these basic settings, when using light falls:

 

- ISO 320 (or 640, to balance ambient)

- shutter speed depending on focal length and subject (1/60 − 1/180 as a start)

- aperture between f2 - f4 (depending on lens, needed dof and ambient balance)

- I use either Autozoom in flash or manual zoom, if using an uncoded lens (or for modeling the light for softer or more concentrated illumination, if needed)

- I start from −1ev with a bounced head, to bring the light, where I want it

- I use a Nikon SB900 in SU-4 mode, if I need more light for background

.

I have coded lenses.

It seems that you are describing using all manual settings except for auto zoom (which I can't find, I found manual zoom). Correct?

If using "A" aperature priority on the M9, with TTL on the flash, what are the settings that work? Or do they not go together?

[D&A]

I have been looking for one of the SF-58 flashes used (recently missed two of them). I originally used the SF-24D (TTL) and from what is posted here, some of the issues described sound very much like the SF-24D issues with the M9 in TTL. Auto mode works fine with both flashes but in TTL, its not like the well tuned system that Nikon has with their speedlights and cameras.

 

Dave (D&A)

[Shade]

I find leica flashes are somewhat difficult to work with, and they're kinda confusing in some way. However, I go manual all the way and set them via trial and error depending on the location I'm shooting at. I just can't be bothered.. Nikon and canon flashes are much easier to use somehow..

[brill64]

i guess like most things it takes practice to master

[D&A]

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HI,

 

I think in some cases, its more than just learning and mastering the Leica TTL flashes (specifically refering to using them in TTL mode). In the ealiest days of Nikon Professional digital SLR's, the TTL flash system was erratic and often gave exposures that were all over the palce. It took quite a few years for Nikon to get to the present point (which was achieved a number of years ago). It imporved steadily with both successive DSLR releases and new model flashes. Not only due to the limitations of the rangefinder system (and it also being different than a DSLR), but Leica doesn't update cameras regulary nor their TTL flashes, so this along with a number of factors has the Lecia TTL flash system cosiderably more crude compared to current Nikon and Canon offereings. It reminds me of the early days of DSLR's and TTL flashes for them.

 

Dave (D&A)

[ShotCapture]

Ok, Leica may have its flash limitations, but someone I thought, posted that good TTL is possible with the SF 58. So would someone explain how. I don't want to give up the possibility of using TTL, at least sometimes. Instructions please.

[chuckw]

Ok, Leica may have its flash limitations, but someone I thought, posted that good TTL is possible with the SF 58. So would someone explain how. I don't want to give up the possibility of using TTL, at least sometimes. Instructions please.

 

I am very, very new user of the SF 58 flash but I can report that reasonably good TTL results are possible with this flash. The flash/camera combination accomplishes this with a pre-flash. The interval between the pre-flash and the actual flash is very short - so short that the incidence of two flashes is either not noticed or barely noticed. Basically you have to be looking for it to see it.

 

To set this up simply set the flash to TTL mode. Set the M9 to "A." Set your aperture of choice. Make sure that the camera and flash are both off when attaching the flash; then turn both on to establish communication. Make sure you see the flash symbol in the view finder (it is possible to be too quick on the shutter button).

 

One additional note - if you always want your shutter to trip at the highest sync speed (180th of a second), in the camera menu, set "Auto slow sync" to "Off." This is somewhat counter intuitive! You can set the slow sync speed to "Lens dependent" in which case, for example, you will typically get 1/60s with a 50mm lens. There are also a few other choices for selecting the slowest sync speed that you will allow. I just typically like to shoot at the highest allowable sync speed to cancel out possible motion blur due to ambient light.

 

I have had good success with this relatively simple procedure using direct flash, bounce flash, and flash using a defuser.

 

I am glad to see that this thread was started. As originally stated I am very new to this flash and hope to see many more tips on successful set up and uses of the SF 58.

[tdtaylor]

From an leica user with the SF24D and SF58, I am glad to see this thread- I thought I was the only one having issues understanding the manuals.

 

I unfortunately cannot offer much advice, only encouragement to others to share their knowledge. I have a 3 flash Nikon system, which is a joy to use. Obviously, the Leica flashes have longer and steeper learning curves.

 

edit- FWIW, the preflash on the SF58 in TTL is almost instantaneous on unnoticeable. The preflash on the SF24D is exactly the opposite.

[gib_robinson]

As a source of advice, Sean Reid's article on the SF58 is very good.

 

--Gib

[chuckw]

I am very, very new user of the SF 58 flash but I can report that reasonably good TTL results are possible with this flash. The flash/camera combination accomplishes this with a pre-flash. The interval between the pre-flash and the actual flash is very short - so short that the incidence of two flashes is either not noticed or barely noticed. Basically you have to be looking for it to see it.

 

To set this up simply set the flash to TTL mode. Set the M9 to "A." Set your aperture of choice. Make sure that the camera and flash are both off when attaching the flash; then turn both on to establish communication. Make sure you see the flash symbol in the view finder (it is possible to be too quick on the shutter button).

 

One additional note - if you always want your shutter to trip at the highest sync speed (180th of a second), in the camera menu, set "Auto slow sync" to "Off." This is somewhat counter intuitive! You can set the slow sync speed to "Lens dependent" in which case, for example, you will typically get 1/60s with a 50mm lens. There are also a few other choices for selecting the slowest sync speed that you will allow. I just typically like to shoot at the highest allowable sync speed to cancel out possible motion blur due to ambient light.

 

I have had good success with this relatively simple procedure using direct flash, bounce flash, and flash using a defuser.

 

I am glad to see that this thread was started. As originally stated I am very new to this flash and hope to see many more tips on successful set up and uses of the SF 58.

 

Quoting myself because it is too late to edit my original post!

 

In re-looking at my brief procedure to set up the SF 58 to operate accurately in TTL mode (second paragraph above) I may have been overly brief in simply saying "set your aperture of choice." To be more precise the aperture must be set manually on both the camera AND the flash. The procedure to do this on the flash is listed on page 46 of the english language version of the SF 58 manual under the heading "Exposure parameter menu." Other parameters such as ISO and focal length (for coded lenses) are transmitted automatically by the camera to the flash.

[scjohn]

From an leica user with the SF24D and SF58, I am glad to see this thread- I thought I was the only one having issues understanding the manuals.

 

I unfortunately cannot offer much advice, only encouragement to others to share their knowledge. I have a 3 flash Nikon system, which is a joy to use. Obviously, the Leica flashes have longer and steeper learning curves.

 

edit- FWIW, the preflash on the SF58 in TTL is almost instantaneous on unnoticeable. The preflash on the SF24D is exactly the opposite.

 

Ha Ha. My thoughts EXACTLY. I too have the 24 and 58 AND a three flash Nikon set up. I too can't work easily with the Leica and am glad to see this thread.

 

I am VERY interested in the comment above regarding use of the nikon 900 is SU-4 mode WITH the Leica 58. I would love to just turn the Leica almost off in the studio and use it to flash the Nikon units.

 

I don't love flash for street photography often and the Leica is such a pain to set I rarely bother. TTL gets a well-lighted subject but ambient light balance is simply non-existant. Can't figure it out to save my life.

[menos I M6]

Ha Ha. …

I am VERY interested in the comment above regarding use of the nikon 900 is SU-4 mode WITH the Leica 58. I would love to just turn the Leica almost off in the studio and use it to flash the Nikon units.

… TTL gets a well-lighted subject but ambient light balance is simply non-existant. Can't figure it out to save my life.

 

When I fiddled with the SF24D for a day, I was hoping, to just be able, to use it as a compact flash trigger for the SU-4'ed Nikon flashes.

 

It was hideous, as the SF24D has to be taped up and filtered, to not blow highlights with it's minimum selectable flash output.

It is a useless waste of money compared to any other flash in that price range.

 

The SF58 works wonderful for this. you can bounce it with low output for little, little fill in the room, play with the reflector card for catchlights and have it triggered the Nikons - brilliant.

 

For a better handling over longer time and more consistency in the studio lighting, when moving around though, I advice to use one set of pocket wizards, to trigger one of the Nikon flashes (the awesomely expensive SF58 has NO PC sync connection ) and have the PW'ed Nikon flash trigger all other flashes via SU-4 (the SF58 will get triggered as well )

 

Basically, if money is no object, the SF58 is the best solution for a Leica user, to get TTL on the camera.

 

For anything else (compact, more power, A, M mode operation), any other flash setup gives more function, access, better UI and possibly also more power for the same money.

 

I was after TTL for the M and love the SF58 for that.

If you don't need TTL on the M and have no issue with the SF58's size and weight, a Nikon SB-900 is a much better option in my opinion, plus, you got some money left over for cigarettes, coffee, ice cream or whatever you like (I guess, Canon does a similarly well made strobe).

[Guest mc_k]

...

 

One additional note - if you always want your shutter to trip at the highest sync speed (180th of a second), in the camera menu, set "Auto slow sync" to "Off." This is somewhat counter intuitive!...

 

I'm not sure what's confusing. Maybe better if the menu item was "Sync speed" instead of "Auto slow sync"?

[D&A]

Quoting myself because it is too late to edit my original post!

 

In re-looking at my brief procedure to set up the SF 58 to operate accurately in TTL mode (second paragraph above) I may have been overly brief in simply saying "set your aperture of choice." To be more precise the aperture must be set manually on both the camera AND the flash. The procedure to do this on the flash is listed on page 46 of the english language version of the SF 58 manual under the heading "Exposure parameter menu." Other parameters such as ISO and focal length (for coded lenses) are transmitted automatically by the camera to the flash.

 

I think I don't quite understand. I realize there is no way for the lens on a M9 to eletronically transmit what aperture it's sent to to the flash...but if someone used an SF-58 in TTL mode, should it matter? The logic is TTL "through the lens" flash metering means the sensor /meter in the M9 measures the amount of light coming through the lens and should then quench the flash output as the flash is firing. Therefore for example, in TTL mode with the SF-58, if you take one shot say at f4 and then stop down the lens to f8, without changing any setting to the flash (just leave in in TTL mode), shouldn't the reduced amount of SF-58 light reaching the M9's sensor/meter tell the flash with lens set to f4 aperture, to shorten it's flash duration/output, as compared to when a shot is taken with lens is then set to f8?

 

Dave (D&A)

[Guest mc_k]

you don't need to say anything to the flash in TTL (GNC)

[chuckw]

I think I don't quite understand. I realize there is no way for the lens on a M9 to eletronically transmit what aperture it's sent to to the flash...but if someone used an SF-58 in TTL mode, should it matter? The logic is TTL "through the lens" flash metering means the sensor /meter in the M9 measures the amount of light coming through the lens and should then quench the flash output as the flash is firing. Therefore for example, in TTL mode with the SF-58, if you take one shot say at f4 and then stop down the lens to f8, without changing any setting to the flash (just leave in in TTL mode), shouldn't the reduced amount of SF-58 light reaching the M9's sensor/meter tell the flash with lens set to f4 aperture, to shorten it's flash duration/output, as compared to when a shot is taken with lens is then set to f8?

 

Dave (D&A)

 

Actually, I believe that you exactly correct and I thought that someone would probably point that out. The procedure that I outlined is probably only necessary in "A" mode or "M" mode.

 

However, maybe it is just the subjects that I have chosen to experiment with, I have at times (but not always) noticed slightly better exposure results matching the flash aperture setting with that of the camera. This would be particularly true where the aperture showing on the flash differed widely from aperture on the camera. For example, where the flash showed f16 and the camera was set to f2.8. One thing that puzzles me is that, at least with my SF 58, the aperture that shows on the flash sometimes varies form one session to the next. Usually when first turned on it comes up at f4, but some times it comes up with different apertures. All of that lead me to the conclusion that it might be safer to match the camera aperture and the aperture showing on the flash. Also I wonder why, if TTL is supposed to be so automatic, why the flash aperture can even be changed in TTL mode? Why not have just allow an EV adjustment where some fine tuning can be done when necessary?

 

All of that said I do think that the SF 58 comes the closest that I have seen (on a Leica) to operating like the wonderful TTL flashes available for Canons or Nikons.

[Bill W]

I am glad it is not just me that had issues with the SF58 and the manual that came with it.

I am certainly not an expert but the Nikon is as I have said idiot proof. The Leica makes me feel like an idiot. I put it away till I had more time to work with it which has not happened yet.

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[tdtaylor]

I am glad it is not just me that had issues with the SF58 and the manual that came with it.

I am certainly not an expert but the Nikon is as I have said idiot proof. The Leica makes me feel like an idiot. I put it away till I had more time to work with it which has not happened yet.

 

As I noted above, I have the Nikon system which is a delight to use. Part of the problem, at least in my case, is that I don't use the SF58 very often, which is probably self evident. Hence, adding the lack of use with the steep learning curve, I don't seem to get anywhere near a place of mastery....or even less. I just read the manual again (and Sean Reid's article), and plan on practicing tomorrow, but this is getting old. And yes, I understand practice makes perfect.

 

Now, my latest lack of understanding is with fill flash. The unit is not quite jiving with the manual on this subject. I think I have now succeeded at making a person -me- with 30 years amateur event experience with two Masters Degrees feel like a blithering idiot!

 

Of course, I will somehow master the unit, in some sort of manner, for this weekend, only to forget it when I need it again in February. Honey, could you fill my wine glass again...........