New S2 owner

[Googaliser]

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Hi,

 

I procrastinated a lot over this one - but finally bought an as-new, secondhand S2 and 70mm for USD 21K. Discount to US retail was 25% - discount to UK retail (incl. VAT) of 35%.

 

This was pretty much what I sold my H3DII-50 body for earlier this year - and one of my key reference cameras.

 

I have shot a few hundred frames this weekend (outdoors - bright sunshine), and for those who are interested, these are my initial observations out in the wild. By way of context - I would not class myself as a pro since although I do paid shoots - I do not make my living from photography (and hence buying an S2 didn't need to be a business decision). These are my stream of consciousness comments - and not intended to be a review by any means!

 

Overall:

I am happy - ergonomics are a bit tedious, but image quality can be breathtaking

 

Ergonomics:

 

Likes:

 

• Feels well balanced when shooting
  
• Looks and feels fantastic
  
• Despite the resolution, I think the rear display is excellent - esp. colour accuracy
  
• OLED top display is not great in sunlight - but usable imo. Small characters are a bigger issue in terms of general legibility
  

 

Dislikes:

 

• Shutter release resets menu when scrolling - all to easy to press by mistake (V annoying)
  
• ISO selection fiddly - have to remember to 'press' to select - not just highlight. Generally too multi-step to operate as quickly as a Canikon and harder to see if you got the setting right.
  
• Sometimes hard to see data in viewfinder - numbers dim and sometimes below eye level
  
• Scroll wheel fiddy - pitty is doesn't have one on front of grip also
  
• Lens shade is HUGE
  

 

Images:

 

Likes:

 

• Images have a 3 dimensional quality to them. Not quite as strong as the Hassy 50 to my eyes - but it is certainly more of an MF look than 35mm. I found myself just staring 'into' a of the shots for minutes. Wonderful.
  
• Colours are in my opinion superb. Hassy/Phocus quality skintones (in LR3) but straight from a DNG and no time consuming phocus work-flow. This has really blown me away (probably also because the M9 seemed so bad to me in this regard)
  
• Exposure (auto) - generally spot on. Many reviewers comment that other than cropping - often very little if any PP is required. I didn't believe this but it is true. This is the first camera where in many cases I didn't need to touch LR3 adjustments (other than to remove occasional fringing - see below)
  
• Incredibly sharp image system. No need for sharpening in LR3 imo
  
• A couple of ISO 1250, 1/30s shots were not just keepers (in B&W) - but looked stunning. High ISO B&W looks great imo - film grain quality
  
• Picture within a picture cropping ability - something I love about the high pixel count MF backs
  

Dislikes:

 

• Typical MF issue with running out of either DOF or light under available lighting. Only in bright light or with flash do you have SLR flexibility
  
• AF is good on static objects - but not great on anything moving
  
• Purple fringing on specular highlights and strongly backlit edges (with 70mm). This ocurred with pretty extreme backlighting - although was noticeable on light reflecting off grass - even stopped down (which I haven't seen before). All cases fixable in LR.
  

 

All in all - I am happy. The image quality surpasses all the 35mm systems I have used (up to M9, D3X & 1DsIII) - images have a hybrid Leica/MF 'look' - that personally I like and marries the best of 2 worlds for me. The ergonomics are a bit of a pain (minimalism at the expense rapid/intuitive operation ?) - and only time will tell whether with practice rapid (&accurate) operation becomes second nature.

 

Rgds

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[kidigital]

Nice price ... every little bit less of an initial price makes it easier to rationalize.

 

If I remember correctly, you seemed to deliberate for awhile before making the jump ... so it is interesting to hear your thoughts now that you have the camera. If you can, keep adding to those thoughts here as you become more acquainted with the system. It usually takes a short period of time before one becomes totally comfortable with a new system, so it would be just as interesting to hear your thoughts several weeks or months from now.

 

Congratulations and enjoy your purchase.

 

Kurt

[Jeffacme]

Congratulations on your purchase and the price, nice work!

 

In playing with the S2 I had many of the same thoughts loved the feel, balance, and IQ.

 

As you said, many of your dislikes relate more to MF in general then the S2 in particular. As an old school Mf shooter might I suggest that you work on shooting manual focus it really isn't that hard to do in most situations and will dramatically speed up the shooting experience.

 

Sounds like the S2 is perfect for your needs.

 

Enjoy

[sunil]

Thanks for sharing your initial thoughts. They are most helpful to me as I am an amateur contemplating making the move from the M8 (which I've sold) to the S2. Given that you probably lugged the S2 around for a bit, is it the kind of camera you would consider taking on a vacation with you? While not a deal breaker for me, it is certainly an important consideration. I try everything with my camera including portraits in a home studio set-up, landscapes, travel etc. etc. I'm still 6 months away from pulling the plug so it is good to get opinions such as yours on the quality and practical issues associated with the S2. Thanks,

[ptomsu]

Googaliser,

 

many thanks for sharing!

 

I am actually so interested as I have similar thoughts WRT other digital MF systems. I am currently using a H3D39 (not quite that H3D50 you had) and I am pretty happy with the IQ output from this camera together with Phocus.

 

BUT - it comes all with the high price of inflexibility WRT workflow, camera handling etc. I tried the S2 and was overwhelmed by how nicely it operates. And it operates just like any other R Leica did, so this is VERY familiar to me and supports my shooting style. Not too much knobs and buttons, just the few important ones and these in a perfect way.

 

I was never happy with that on my H3D. And yes, it allows very flexible things, but I do not use them and do not even need them.

 

WRT IQ and LR3.2 - I am back again now using LR as my main processing SW, after fiddling around with C1 Pro and others for the last 2 years. LR3.2 gives me the best and quickest results at the easiest way meanwhile. Especially in combination with Leica DNGs. Period. So this is another argument for the S System.

 

I am using MF mainly for landscape so far, which the S2 can easily handle with its 37MPs! But is also allows to use it for "fast" high quality shooting - people, some wildlife and some sports - so it is really much more flexible than just a pure MF system like Phase or Hasselblad - my opinion at least.

 

So please keep posting your thoughts.

 

Thanks again!

 

Peter

[glenerrolrd]

What did the seller tell you about the warranty? In the USA Leica s policy is that warranties are not transferrable. This is an important factor and if its changed for the S2 that would be great.

[Googaliser]

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All, thank you for your kind comments and congratulations - I will certainly update the thread with further observations - as and when they occur....

 

Roger -

Interesting question re. the warranty. You have me reaching for the middle draw in my desk.... There is no mention of 'non-transferability' in the warranty booklet. It is a global document (so no US carve-out etc), and contractually appears to be between the warranty-card holder and Solms. It is also clear that regardless of the country where it is purchased, you can take it to a foreign dealer to be repatriated to solms.

 

So basically - if you have the warranty card and it is stamped, dated and within the warranty period - the camera appears to be covered.

 

Ironically, buying secondhand (with provenance) gives me more comfort than new on the warranty front. The majority of warranty issues I face these days occur within the first week of ownership (poor QC or DOA).

 

Rgds

[gpleica]

I too am a new owner of an S2 bought used, though an S2P with 70 with 900 shots through it, for $25K. I've used it for a month now, and close to a thousand photographs through it. The warranty was completely transferable, Leica has me registered as this camera's owner now, for the remainder of the camera's warranty.

 

In comparison to the full year now I've had with my M9 (25k shots through it to date), I'd say the M9 is the perfect travel camera if you want complete flexibility and light weight. But nothing beats this S2 in my opinion for quality and weather-tough engineering - which makes it my choice for nearly everything these days. Sadly, the M9 has been relegated to my "backup" camera.

 

Geoffrey

Milford, PA

[gpleica]

Let me add that I too find that I shoot the S2 on manual focus all the time. The auto focus just doesn't fit my style of shooting....and when I did try it out at first, it just seemed to take too long to center on the subject, focus, lock focus, recompose and shoot. The viewfinder is so sharp and the focusing mechanism on the 70 so smooth, that manual focusing is quick and accurate 99% of the time, in my experience.

 

Geoffrey

Milford, PA

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Googalizer, congrats in a great deal.

 

Just one thought, the lens shade, I'm thinking that is part if the breathtaking contrast in the system, keeping then lens working in as much shade as possible. This may have been a very deliberate design choice from Leica.

 

.

[Wiggi]

Congratulations!

 

Which lenses do you use? Do you only shoot with the 70mm or also with Hasselblad lenses and adapter?

[glenerrolrd]

I too am a new owner of an S2 bought used, though an S2P with 70 with 900 shots through it, for $25K. I've used it for a month now, and close to a thousand photographs through it. The warranty was completely transferable, Leica has me registered as this camera's owner now, for the remainder of the camera's warranty.

 

In comparison to the full year now I've had with my M9 (25k shots through it to date), I'd say the M9 is the perfect travel camera if you want complete flexibility and light weight. But nothing beats this S2 in my opinion for quality and weather-tough engineering - which makes it my choice for nearly everything these days. Sadly, the M9 has been relegated to my "backup" camera.

 

Geoffrey

Milford, PA

 

Geoffrey

 

Did you buy this from an individual or thru a dealer? I only ask because on the M9 the warranty is definitely not transferrable in the USA. Leica often handles repairs as in warranty while technically not recognizing that the camera was transferred . Sounds like you are covered since they reregistered your camera .

 

This is good news because it protects the investment .

 

Roger

[Googaliser]

Googalizer, congrats in a great deal.

 

Just one thought, the lens shade, I'm thinking that is part if the breathtaking contrast in the system, keeping then lens working in as much shade as possible. This may have been a very deliberate design choice from Leica.

 

.

 

Thanks Bo,

It probably is optimal for contrast - just sub-optimal outside of a studio from an ergo standpoint ! Does anyone know if the front 'element' adds anything optically to the 70mm - it appears to be totally flat and more protective in nature. If it doesn't - then the first curved objectives is quite recessed and therefore reasonably well sheltered without a lens hood in anything but direct light.

 

Rgds

[dfarkas]

Thanks Bo,

It probably is optimal for contrast - just sub-optimal outside of a studio from an ergo standpoint ! Does anyone know if the front 'element' adds anything optically to the 70mm - it appears to be totally flat and more protective in nature. If it doesn't - then the first curved objectives is quite recessed and therefore reasonably well sheltered without a lens hood in anything but direct light.

 

Rgds

 

The front piece of glass on the 70mm is only for protection and weather sealing as the lens uses a total focusing design. It adds nothing optically.

 

Personally, I rarely use the hood, even in bright sunlight. The 70mm isn't very prone to flare and I prefer the smaller size without the shade.

 

David

[eronald]

Thanks Bo,

It probably is optimal for contrast - just sub-optimal outside of a studio from an ergo standpoint ! Does anyone know if the front 'element' adds anything optically to the 70mm - it appears to be totally flat and more protective in nature. If it doesn't - then the first curved objectives is quite recessed and therefore reasonably well sheltered without a lens hood in anything but direct light.

 

Rgds

 

AFAIK what David says is wrong. The front element is a filter which solves UV sensitivity issues. I had a chat with the Leica guys about the out of band issues with sensors, when they already had a camera design and lens prototypes, an their tests indicated UV sensitivity. They asked me whether I thought the issues could be solved with software, I said I didn't think so, they agreed and said they were going to build filters into the lenses; I expect this is what this front element really is, although I don't actually know how the filter works, it could be simply by absorption in the glass rather than a coating.

 

BTW, there is nothing wrong with a company noticing a potential issue, and building in a safeguard at design time.

 

Edmund

[LeicaS2]

David is never wrong, please.

He said protection. Protection from UV counts as protection.

He might have added that the outer coating sheds water droplets, which it does. That's protection too.

What I take in the meaning of adding nothing optically is no bending of light.

[gpleica]

Geoffrey

 

Did you buy this from an individual or thru a dealer? I only ask because on the M9 the warranty is definitely not transferrable in the USA. Leica often handles repairs as in warranty while technically not recognizing that the camera was transferred . Sounds like you are covered since they reregistered your camera .

 

This is good news because it protects the investment .

 

Roger

 

Roger,

 

Go to this link on Leica's website and you'll see that question 3.7 answers things definitively regarding the complete transferability of the S2 warranty. In sum, it is fully transferrable if you sell or buy an S2 that is still within it's warranty period..

 

http://www.s.leica-camera.com/assets/downloads/faq/S2FAQen.pdf

 

All the best,

 

Geoffrey

[Googaliser]

Happy New Year to everyone on LUF

 

After 2 months of use - I thought I would update my musings on S2 ownership.

I strongly recommend reading Thorsten Overgaard's analysis though (assuming you haven't already) - a lot of it resonates.

 

The reduced flexibility versus the M9 is frustrating. This is a highly niche camera - you need lots of light if handholding. It really hasn't been getting the use I had hoped. The new 35mm summilux on the trusty M9 has been seeing the most action lately. I could live without the S2 quite happily - but the M9/35lux combo would need to be wrenched from my dying hands.

 

That said - when my technique (especially choice of subject/lighting) does the S2 the justice it deserves - the results are jaw-droppingly good. Its just unfortunate that only about 25% of my photography falls within the narrow spectrum of the S2's non-studio capabilities. The temptation to bring it when light falters has now been firmly brought to a halt - too many missed shots.

 

I managed to get hold of the S 35mm and am still evaluating - although it is a big lens.

Another quirk that annoys me is that I have set the DOF button to control the focus modes - but this can only be used when the camera is taken first out of preview mode. Again, an unnecessary multi-step process. Mind you - my button mapping may not be optimal - I'm still experimenting. These are my maps - keen to hear what others are using:

 

Back

Top Left - ISO

Top Right - Review

Bottom Right - Exp Comp

Bottom Left - Metering Pattern

AFE/L Lock - In AF - it locks E & F, in MF it focuses

 

Front

DOF button - Focus Mode

 

I am currently experimenting with long exposure landscapes (dawn/dusk) - and have to say the early results look fantastic. Far less noise than my old Hassy 50 or the M9.

 

In short - Its a keeper - I just wish it was more flexible. Just imagine the possibilities if it had the sensitivity of a D3 sigh.....

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[JMacD]

I am using the S far more than the M9. When David Farkas said he did the same in Savanah with just one lens, I wondered how he could say that. At that time I had just tested the S.

Owning the S I have found myself using the camera as an all round camera. I bought the S for landscapes. I love the M for it's small size, but am surprisingly willing to take the S where I had not expected to. With LR3 I am now using ISO 1250 with thhe S more than I thought I could to limit camera movement and subject motion when required. I have the 35mm lens; It is a terrific lens and can shoot very well in low light. I have been using the M for portraits, but I suspect I will be switching to the S when the 120mm is available. Frankly, auto focus will be a plus with a portrait.

To me, the quest is for great glass in digital. I left M film for Canon's D1s. I returned to M when Leica went digital so I could use Leica's sharper lenses that digital required. I appreciated the smaller size as canon lenses were very large in my mind. I guess instead of comparing camera systems now, I merely say the S has the best glass for me, and a camera that has an excellent sensor. Instead of missing the small size of the M, I rationalize that it is no bigger than Canon or Nikon. I now see why R users bemoan the lack of an R solution for their glass, but this is the better path. Digital requires a clean sheet of design, and Leica is the only company to have attacked it to date.

[Googaliser]

I'm keen to get my hands on a 120mm also... I am also told that the 24mm will start to ship in Feb