Is Digilux 3 an Improvement?

[drolfe]

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Has anyone had sufficient experience with both the Digilux-3 and Digilux-2 to offer a comparison? For example, has shutter lag improved, and is the Digi-3 measurably better at higher ISOs than the Digi-2?

 

I've used my Digi-2 heavily for the past couple of years, and have been very pleased with it. The rubber is falling off, the body is covered with dings and scratches, but it continues to take fine photographs. The M8 is a bit out of reach just now, and I'm afraid I've gotten spoiled by the zoom on the Digilux-2.

 

I'd like to hear some comparisons, if anyone has some to offer. Thanks.

 

drolfe

[Riley]

i dont have a D3

but images published here by a D2 and D3 owner led me to conclude images are remarkably similar. Obvious difference in DoF aside.

Going by Pana L1 reports, there is less lag, and less noise. iso800 looks better than iso200 on D2

[jbstitt]

David,

 

I am an avid fan of the D2. Yes, it has some drawbacks, but it is a fantastic camera. I have hundreds of tack sharp prints to as big as 16 x 12 inches that look fantastic. Most were shot at 100, and noise is a problem at 400, but the size of the camera, the operation, is fantastic.

 

I was disappointed at the design of the D3 when it was announced. I really did not them to leave the mode of the D2, just improve it, but that is not what Leica and Panasonic chose to do. Anyway, I placed my order for a D3 and worked with it for about a week. Some things about it I liked allot, but others were really not acceptable. I found the images very soft, The camera heavy, and it still had high speed noise. The autofocus was worse than the D2. For the money it was not worth it for me. I returned it to my dealer and got a refund. Now I went for a competitive DSLR - a 13 meg full frame, and am happy that I made the right decision.

 

I think Leica made a big mistake. The concept of the D2 was excellent. Why did they abandon it? This was in the mode of classic Leicas. Someone must have gotten their arm twisted by someone from the far east.

 

Anyway I have cast my vote with my money.

 

John Stitt

[winsurfer]

Has anyone had sufficient experience with both the Digilux-3 and Digilux-2 to offer a comparison? For example, has shutter lag improved, and is the Digi-3 measurably better at higher ISOs than the Digi-2?

 

I have used both and find the D3 a mixed bag. One should personally way the pluses and minuses out. The camera is heavier for sure but is very comfortable in the hands! The glass is sharp and the OIS is the ticket for low light situations when you want to use lower ASA's, or at extreme telephoto without a tripod. Leica has adopted a less sharp default setting than the Panasonic cousin. One must either sharpen more in camera or use a good sharpener in post processing. The auto focus can be a little slow in low light. You can always manual focus if you choose.

 

I really can't wait for the new Leica prime lens coming out this summer. New lenses will be added down the road. The D2 can't use these.

 

The noise situation is about the same. No where near my Epson RD-1s nor my Fuji S3 but neither of those cameras have OIS to let you use lower ASA's either.

 

The 2 largest complaints is shutter noise, and the fact that you have better metering when using the live view rather than the viewfinder. By the way, the D2 does not have live view or allow for different formats.

Hope this helps.

[winsurfer]

The noise situation is about the same. No where near my Epson RD-1s nor my Fuji S3 but neither of those cameras have OIS to let you use lower ASA's either.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I just went back and checked my Old D2 verses my D3 high Asa files and the D3 is quite a bit better. 400 ASA is smooth and clean and the 800 is very usable! 1600 ASA is like the D2's 400 asa!

[ustein]

>I found the images very soft,

 

Yes, it seems to need a lot of sharpening. Likely a very stron AA filter.

 

Uwe

[dugby]

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My 1st few weeks of D3/L1 ownership lead me to believe the images were similar to my D2.

I posted some samples in Nov-06.

 

Now after 2 months of heavy use 20GB later I can tell you the D3 is a vast improvement over my old D2. The D3 has a learning curve with the various settings.

 

Here's a couple recent shots in Tokyo, Paris and London

 

The D3/L1 is so much faster to shoot, OIS is brilliant, and images are so so clean....

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[Riley]

its like this

if a year ago someone asked what would you like the new D2 to be

people would have asked for an optical finder

they would have looked for better iso performance

they might ask for interchangeable lenses

[audidudi]

I've never used the D2 or D3 but I do own and use their Panasonic twins, the LC1 and L1. Personally, I find the D2/LC1 to be much more comfortable in my hands and the D3/L1 a bit on the bulky/heavy side. Although both viewfinders basically suck, I find the L1's sucks maybe just a little bit less, but this isn't a big problem for me as most of my photography is tripod based so I tend to use the LCDs most of the time.

 

IMO, the L1's image quality is a little bit better than the LC1's (at ISO100, anyway ... don't have much experience with higher ISOs, again because most of my shooting is done on a tripod, so I don't need the extra speed), the RAW shooting rate is much faster (and, in fact, fast enough for me most of the time, unlike with the LC1, which was a bit too pokey) and exposure compensation can be done more quickly than with the LC1 (if you program it correctly, you don't need to push any buttons, just turn the thumbwheel).

 

Although I really don't need to own both cameras, I'm finding the LC1 is the one I reach for when I want to shoot handheld and the L1 is pretty much dedicated to tripod-based stuff, so they address different needs.

 

As for why the D3 isn't an improved D2, I think, on some level, the reason for this is the M8's existence. Although you and I see them as intended for two different audiences, there's no question that some M8 buyers would have happily settled for an improved D2 were it available. An improved D2 might cannibalize some amount of M8 sales, which is the last thing Leica needs right now.

 

Although I hesitate to make an automotive analogy on a camera forum, there's a precedent for this sort of thinking. Back in the late '90s, I know for a fact that Chevrolet intentionally hobbled the performance of its Camaro by detuning the engine and suspension so it wouldn't outperform the Corvette, the company's designated sports car, and thereby totally screw up its marketing efforts and brand image.

 

Likewise, when Porsche helps Audi prepare high-performance versions of its cars, they're always Avants (wagons) so they don't compete head-to-head with Porsche's offerings, and I suspect a similar situation might be occuring with Leica and Panasonic. A DSLR better serves Panasonic's needs for a premium-quality, consumer-oriented camera and so far as Leica is concerned, a DSLR broadens their product line and won't compete with the M8..

 

My two cents worth, anyway...

[MJLogan]

My D3 creates bigger, less noisy files than my partner's D2.OIS on the D3 with its kit lens more than makes up for the fact that the D3's lens is one stop slower. The electronics are newer and faster--especially raw write times. I can use (with a cheap adapter) my old manual OM lenses on the D3 with excellent results.

 

I think a big reason some people are underwhelmed by the D3 is this: The D2 was an absolutely unique standout in the world of fixed-lens digicams. The D3 is one of many, many DSLRs on the market. There are as many good reasons to pass on the D3 (smallish sensor, dimmish viewfinder, slowish autofocus) as there are good reasons to buy it (brilliant lens, iintuitve controls, excellent OIS, live view)--it just depends on your priorities.

 

I love my D3, but it's certainly not the right solution for everyone. And the poster who said the D3 has a learning curve was spot-on--my results just keep getting better as I gain experience with the camera.

[Riley]

well said Michael

i like the 'one of many, many dslr's'

[jdlaing]

I can use (with a cheap adapter) my old manual OM lenses on the D3 with excellent results.

 

 

I tried an OM 28mm on mine the other day and it was beautiful.

 

I'm getting better with it as I progress as well.

[dugby]

 

The autofocus was worse than the D2.

 

John Stitt

 

The default settings for the D3 and L1 will probably do more harm to sales....

 

Anyone who does not get to use a correctly set D3....will be disappointed. I know that my initial 1 week with my L1, I thought I'd made a mistake.

 

Now that I've set it up, correctly.....its superb, and many times better than my D2. I'm now seeing shots that clearly show that the D3/L1 comes from the same DNA pool as the DMR/M8. Clearly not identical IQ to a DMR/M8, but very close image tones, colours and sharpness.

 

To optimise a D3/L1, change the following......

 

AF, is 3-zones, ie left-center-right which slows down and confuses the focussing. If you change this setting to 'center only', the D3 is many times faster to focus than my D2.

 

Create a 'Film 1' profile, based on 'dynamic' and ensure sharpness is set to highest, and Noise Reduction set to lowest.

 

Set OIS to Mode 2.

 

There are a few more settings I've not yet had a chance to 'evaluate'.......soon though.

[spylaw4]

Thanks for the helpful setup infomation Dugby, I¨m all D3 users/potential users would appreciate updates on your evaluations.

[Riley]

likewise

Olympus have less than the best settings standard too

dugby, you will probably find that shooting more at F8

will improve sharpness of images

not too surprising, I expect much of the metering etc comes from Oly

[jdlaing]

To optimise a D3/L1, change the following......

 

AF, is 3-zones, ie left-center-right which slows down and confuses the focussing. If you change this setting to 'center only', the D3 is many times faster to focus than my D2.

 

Create a 'Film 1' profile, based on 'dynamic' and ensure sharpness is set to highest, and Noise Reduction set to lowest.

 

Set OIS to Mode 2.

 

There are a few more settings I've not yet had a chance to 'evaluate'.......soon though.

 

I went out today and tried some of those settings. I always used the Mode 2 on OIS and center spot but the rest I tweaked and it made a difference. I was quite pleased.

[imported_mike_w]

The default settings for the D3 and L1 will probably do more harm to sales....

 

Anyone who does not get to use a correctly set D3....will be disappointed. I know that my initial 1 week with my L1, I thought I'd made a mistake.

 

Now that I've set it up, correctly.....its superb, and many times better than my D2. I'm now seeing shots that clearly show that the D3/L1 comes from the same DNA pool as the DMR/M8. Clearly not identical IQ to a DMR/M8, but very close image tones, colours and sharpness.

 

To optimise a D3/L1, change the following......

 

Create a 'Film 1' profile, based on 'dynamic' and ensure sharpness is set to highest, and Noise Reduction set to lowest.

 

There are a few more settings I've not yet had a chance to 'evaluate'.......soon though.

 

 

I presume that information is out of date now that V2.0 firmware is available ....

or is it still relevent?

 

Has anyone evaluated v2.0?

[asabet]

Besides the physical resemblance and the name, I don't think the D3 can be thought of as an upgraded model of the D2. They are different to the core. The larger sensor of the D3 allows it to capture more pixels with less noise, greater flexibility with depth of field, and presumably greater dynamic range. Faster autofocus and no viewfinder lag combine to give the D3 considerably less shutter lag. The size, weight, and silence of the D2 make it a joy to use though.

[miami91]

Besides the physical resemblance and the name, I don't think the D3 can be thought of as an upgraded model of the D2. They are different to the core. The larger sensor of the D3 allows it to capture more pixels with less noise, greater flexibility with depth of field, and presumably greater dynamic range. Faster autofocus and no viewfinder lag combine to give the D3 considerably less shutter lag. The size, weight, and silence of the D2 make it a joy to use though.

 

Very true. Leica may have done themselves a disservice (and all of us as well) by using the Digilux name for their first entry into the DSLR field. Of course, Panasonic's naming conventions aren't all that clearer or more compelling.

 

Jeff.

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[dugby]

V2.00 firmware introduces about 10 new features to the L1, that the D3 misses out on.

 

1. Added a multiple exposure function.

 

2. Added "panning mode"(MODE3) to the optical image stabilizer.

 

3. Added a "low-angle" viewing mode that makes it easier to view the LCD display when the camera is held below eye level.

 

4. Added feature that simplifies setting the aperture when using a lens without an aperture ring.

 

5. Added two manual white balance settings to GUI. GUI design uses navigational cursor to easily select, and set, white balance (WB) to change the color temperature, or set the ISO sensitivity or flash.

Time restriction for making changes was removed.

 

6. Added "HOLD" option to Auto Review time, enabling continuous viewing.

 

7. Added feature to allow zoomed playback of photos. It's now possible to move back to the preceding images or forward to the next images while the image is still zoomed.

 

8. Added [AUTO] for the ISO sensitivity in the aperture-priority AE mode [A] and shutter speed-priority AE mode .

 

9. Added GUI option to easily check the firmware version.

 

10. Improved the performance of AE(Auto Exposure) and AWB(Auto White Balance).

 

The in camera jpegs now improve upon the base D2 jpegs without being so heavy handed with the in camera settings. Overall, the image quality has taken a significant step towards the DNA of those images from either M8 / DMR

 

I now always reach for the L1 to take a photo, and not my D2.