Ebay M8 with high ISO lines - Advice

[radfilm]

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Hello

I just bought a fine example of an M8 with a later S#. It only has 2700 Actuation's and is in mint shape.

I tested it right away at 160,640,1250,2500 ASAs and the dreaded "Vertical Line" is there starting at 1250...

It is not at 640 and below...I really do not plan on shooting this camera above 640 as it is too noisy and I would rather shoot my Canon for that can of work.

So I am asking for advice on what to do:

 

1. Send it back for refund

 

2. The seller is offered partial refund if I want to keep it

 

3. Keep it as I do not plan on shooting High ISO

 

Do you think the sensor is bad and this is just the beginning of bad things to come?

 

I am so bummed because the camera is very clean and the seller seems like a very honest man..

I really wish it just did not have a problem... Help me make a good decision please ....

 

Cheers,

Dana Gonzales:(

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[lct]

I would ask for an estimate of repairs before doing anything.

[Jark89]

I believe I've read that the vertical line problem gets worse over time, so it might trickle down to the lower ISOs after some more use. I'm not sure of this myself however, maybe someone else with more concrete knowledge will input some advice.

 

Also, isn't Leica still offering free sensor repair/replacement service for free?

[garygsandhu]

I returned two M8's for repair to Leica NJ under warranty for the vertical line defect.

Speculations about further degradation are just that, not fact.

It's nice to shoot at 1250. Some Lightroom noise reduction and i still have better photos than my APS-c dslr.

 

I would suggest you return it for a full refund.

[lct]

..isn't Leica still offering free sensor repair/replacement service for free?

Yes indeed if your body is still under warranty.

[radfilm]

It is such a shame as I can tell I really like the way the images look for my style. I have only shot test photos and I am using all older lenses but love the look.

The seller is sending me another mint condition body that he says he tested from 2500 Asa down and it is perfect.

I suggest anybody who buys any M8 to shoot test shots first at all ASAs and process them and look closely as if you look hard enough you may even see the line in the 160 shots...

[pklein]

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If the line divides the sensor into two equal halves, then it probably is a sensor problem and it will need to be repaired.

 

But, a hot or dead pixel can cause a vertical line to form during processing, either in the internal JPGs or when developing with Capture One. The line that displays is not "real," in that you don't have a whole line of bad pixels. You have just one, and it is affecting its neighbors because of how the image is processed.

 

Leica, unlike some manufacturers (e.g. Olympus), does not provide in in-camera routine to map out a hot or dead pixel. All cameras get then eventually. Having a few dead pixels is really not a big deal. Leica can map them out for you, at a price. Or, if you shoot RAW, there's a cheaper solution.

 

There is a freeware program called Pixel Fixer that will find and map out the dead pixels in RAW (DNG) files. It is for the PC/Windows only, not Mac. You take a dark frame at ISO 1250 and feed it into the program, and it will determine the location of the faulty pixels and create a map file. Then whenever you have a folder full of RAW files to work on, you run the program, it maps out the bad pixels and re-writes each file. The bad pixels are recreated by interpolating from nearby pixels, so it looks correct. Fast and easy. I use it.

 

If you look at the Pixel Fixer Web site, you will see a picture showing how a single hot pixel can cause a vertical line. Fix the pixel, and the line disappears.

Pixel Fixer | Hot pixel removal utility

 

Hope this helps

--Peter

[braeside]

That's really interesting information Peter, I had always thought the vertical line was produced in the sensor somehow. You learn something new every day.

[yanidel]

I had the vertical line problem (hot pixel) and sent it so Solms for repair. It had another problem too, but I am pretty sure I wasn't charged for the fix, even if I was out of warranty. I think it is a simple software fix, not much labor there.

 

If you are sure it is the hot pixel problem and don't need high ISO. Keep it this way, I did several months. And the day you do a CLA or have another issue, have it repaired at the same time.

[zombii]

If the line divides the sensor into two equal halves, then it probably is a sensor problem and it will need to be repaired.

 

But, a hot or dead pixel can cause a vertical line to form during processing, either in the internal JPGs or when developing with Capture One. The line that displays is not "real," in that you don't have a whole line of bad pixels. You have just one, and it is affecting its neighbors because of how the image is processed.

 

Leica, unlike some manufacturers (e.g. Olympus), does not provide in in-camera routine to map out a hot or dead pixel. All cameras get then eventually. Having a few dead pixels is really not a big deal. Leica can map them out for you, at a price. Or, if you shoot RAW, there's a cheaper solution.

 

There is a freeware program called Pixel Fixer that will find and map out the dead pixels in RAW (DNG) files. It is for the PC/Windows only, not Mac. You take a dark frame at ISO 1250 and feed it into the program, and it will determine the location of the faulty pixels and create a map file. Then whenever you have a folder full of RAW files to work on, you run the program, it maps out the bad pixels and re-writes each file. The bad pixels are recreated by interpolating from nearby pixels, so it looks correct. Fast and easy. I use it.

 

If you look at the Pixel Fixer Web site, you will see a picture showing how a single hot pixel can cause a vertical line. Fix the pixel, and the line disappears.

Pixel Fixer | Hot pixel removal utility

 

Hope this helps

--Peter

 

This is good info. I wish I'd known it a week ago. I just sent mine off to Leica for almost exactly the same problem. I would like to have tried this first. I guess I'll see what they come back with. Of course, if they replace the sensor for free, that's fine. Mine is one of the early serial number examples that they were doing replacements on.

[braeside]

My M8 had the sensor replaced (free) for this fault. Reading the pixel fixer blurb again it is not clear if the line fault is cleared by removing only the stuck pixel, or if pixel fixer also has to repair the resulting line, I suspect the latter.

 

Fortunately my sensor does not have a stuck pixel just now to allow me to test that.

[zombii]

I got the estimate back from Leica: $475. This is what they propose to do:

* Perform pixel/column restoration

* Align sensor

* Check complete meter system

* Upgrade to current standard (Newspeak for firmware upgrade. Mine is current.)

* Check and adjust for good working order.

 

No sensor replacement. They couldn't even tell me if the sensor had been replaced since this body has several of the upgrades. I'm doing it but I'm not happy. If I have any more problems after this, I'm going to be looking to talk to somebody other than a service tech.

[pklein]

My M8 had the sensor replaced (free) for this fault. Reading the pixel fixer blurb again it is not clear if the line fault is cleared by removing only the stuck pixel, or if pixel fixer also has to repair the resulting line, I suspect the latter.

 

My M8 has four hot pixels, one of which caused a visible vertical line. When I ran an ISO 1250 dark frame through the Pixel Fixer calibration routine, it created a map with exactly four x,y coordinates, corresponding to those three pixels. No line. Just three dots.

 

As I posted previously, I'm pretty sure the lines that are caused by hot pixels are not "real," they are an artifact of how the image is processed. If you remove the hot pixel from the RAW file, the line it generated in the RAW processor goes away, too.

 

None of this applies to vertical lines that bisect the sensor into two equally-sized left and right halves. This is a serious sensor problem, and must be repaired by Leica.

[braeside]

Thanks for that - most interesting. At least we know that there is an alternative to sensor replacement.

 

There was rumour that Leica were going to come up with a pixel remap service, maybe even one the user could do themselves. That would be ideal.

 

Most other DSLR CCD cameras I have owned do an automatic remap every so often, in the case on my Minolta and Sony cameras, each month. Something that Leica should have done as well.

[ramosa]

I would return it for a refund. I would be very uncomfortable about getting into a new camera purchase with this immediate problem. I have an M8. I bought it new--and I certainly would have returned it promptly if it had this problem. There are lots of other M8s to be had, so I would return it and move past this headache. (Pardon my candor, but I hope it is of some help.)

 

 

 

Hello

I just bought a fine example of an M8 with a later S#. It only has 2700 Actuation's and is in mint shape.

I tested it right away at 160,640,1250,2500 ASAs and the dreaded "Vertical Line" is there starting at 1250...

It is not at 640 and below...I really do not plan on shooting this camera above 640 as it is too noisy and I would rather shoot my Canon for that can of work.

So I am asking for advice on what to do:

 

1. Send it back for refund

 

2. The seller is offered partial refund if I want to keep it

 

3. Keep it as I do not plan on shooting High ISO

 

Do you think the sensor is bad and this is just the beginning of bad things to come?

 

I am so bummed because the camera is very clean and the seller seems like a very honest man..

I really wish it just did not have a problem... Help me make a good decision please ....

 

Cheers,

Dana Gonzales:(

[radfilm]

Thanks to all who replied. I have returned the original M8 body and the seller gave me another that had more shutter actuations but just returned from Leica service for a shutter fault.. Somehow the shutter is lot quieter then the original M8.

I called Leica and they said The body has a year warranty so I am very happy to have this in case of a problem.