jaapv Posted September 20, 2010 Share #21 Posted September 20, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Exposure compensation, ISO setting and number of frames left would be fantastic too. The M9 lacks some important information in the viewfinder. It is too easy to forget the exposure compensation setting, for example. The new Fuji's viewfinder is very rich with information. At the same time, all of the info is outside of the image area. There is a histogram overlay, but I imagine that can be turned off. Couldn't see the image for the information... No - minimal clutter in the viewfinder please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Should the M9 successor have a Hybrid Viewfinder. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
aymoon Posted September 20, 2010 Share #22 Posted September 20, 2010 Couldn't see the image for the information... No - minimal clutter in the viewfinder please. I guess the beauty of an overlay is that you can choose what you do or do not want to see. There have been times when I would have liked to see nothing but the rangefinder patch and the world in front of me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted September 20, 2010 Share #23 Posted September 20, 2010 Couldn't see the image for the information... No - minimal clutter in the viewfinder please. You couldn't see the image? The clutter -- i.e. useful information -- appears to be outside of the image area: Hybrid Viewfinder | FUJIFILM FinePix X100 The histogram is an overlay on the image, but I presume it's optional. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/131794-should-the-m9-successor-have-a-hybrid-viewfinder/?do=findComment&comment=1445045'>More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 20, 2010 Share #24 Posted September 20, 2010 I love the wonderful optics of the M rangefinder. Clear and bright and uncluttered. I can remember my own settings, thank you, without having them in the viewfinder because, my brain is the exposure control of my camera. I just want my camera to be a direct connection to my eye/brain and my brain can tell my hands what to do. The rest of this stuff is unnecessary and very unwanted to me. But, if Leica can use this technology to improve frame line accuracy that is great. But, keep the histogram out of the picture and keep any extra exposure settings or other information out of the picture area (i.e. put it on the bottom with the rest of the exposure info). That picture of the X100 viewfinder looks terrible to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 20, 2010 Share #25 Posted September 20, 2010 My guess - this is a done conversation, the new limited M9 Ti, seems to have a electronic projected frame line.. for sure this will be on the M10 if not on the M9.2 http://twitpic.com/2qe1hb . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted September 20, 2010 Share #26 Posted September 20, 2010 Clear and bright and uncluttered. I can remember my own settings, thank you, without having them in the viewfinder because, my brain is the exposure control of my camera. I just want my camera to be a direct connection to my eye/brain and my brain can tell my hands what to do. That's great because instant access to this vital information makes the camera/eye/brain/hands connection work better. Especially if you shoot multiple cameras. Especially when shooting in fast-changing conditions, with events that won't slow down or repeat for the photographer. It's also nice to have a viewfinder that is uncluttered by extra framelines that you aren't using, by an ambiguous exposure compensation dot, and by arrows that suggest which way to turn the aperture ring but give no clue as to how much. The biggest problem with the X100's viewfinder appears to be its 0.5X magnification. That is a significant step down from the M viewfinder. At the same time, the vital information provided by the X100's viewfinder is superb in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 20, 2010 Share #27 Posted September 20, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bo, here we go, the optical path for an LCD is now there in the finder path for live view as well. Looking like the M10 is going to have CMOS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 20, 2010 Share #28 Posted September 20, 2010 zlatcob, at least I'll be able to turn it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 20, 2010 Share #29 Posted September 20, 2010 Bo, here we go, the optical path for an LCD is now there in the finder path for live view as well. Looking like the M10 is going to have CMOS. If so, I'll stick with the M9 "classic." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Andersson Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share #30 Posted September 20, 2010 My guess - this is a done conversation, the new limited M9 Ti, seems to have a electronic projected frame line.. for sure this will be on the M10 if not on the M9.2 Here is the Leica M9 Titanium #leicadesignpreview #leica #ph... on Twitpic . We'll know for sure when the appropriate press release is, er, released but from what I've read on the Twitter feeds the frame lines are still mechanically generated and the only innovation is that they are illuminated by red LEDs. So, with respect to everyone, I don't believe the titanium M9 launch has any relevance to this thread. Shame, but there we are. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 20, 2010 Share #31 Posted September 20, 2010 Bob, totally agree. (while being a little disappointed the M9 Ti did not take it further) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 20, 2010 Share #32 Posted September 20, 2010 You couldn't see the image? The clutter -- i.e. useful information -- appears to be outside of the image area:Hybrid Viewfinder | FUJIFILM FinePix X100 The histogram is an overlay on the image, but I presume it's optional. I hope all this is optional, because, frankly, it is a mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 21, 2010 Share #33 Posted September 21, 2010 I left the TV on downstairs. I came up to check out the announcements on the site. I clicked upon a link to the new M9 Titanium. The second it popped on screen, Homer Simpson came on to the TV downstairs and started shouting: Loser! Loser! Loser! ... then there was an explosion and Homer screamed. Serendipity? I think not. ... but this is a true story. What timing! Way to go Homer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted September 21, 2010 Share #34 Posted September 21, 2010 You couldn't see the image? The clutter -- i.e. useful information -- appears to be outside of the image area:Hybrid Viewfinder | FUJIFILM FinePix X100 The histogram is an overlay on the image, but I presume it's optional. What a mess! Reminds of an F16 hud! and the F16 is a fighter plane... Then, what is the point of using both optical AND electronic VF? Why must it overlaid like that and mess with the scene? It seems that Fuji tries to impress everyone, lacks vision, but surely is an interesting product. I loved the live histogram though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted September 21, 2010 Share #35 Posted September 21, 2010 A mess? All of the information is outside the image area. It is out of the picture. It is vital information, neatly organized and self-explanatory. A dream for anyone who shoots in dark environments. The exception is the histogram overlay, which is almost certainly optional. If this viewfinder were on a Leica-branded camera, it would be applauded as intelligent and intuitive, providing instant access to the info needed for fast-paced photojournalism, etc. By contrast, the M9 always shows excess frame lines, sometimes over the image area. For example, shoot a 50 and you have 75 frame lines over your image. And the shutter speed appears in big RED numbers, and it is partly over the image area of the 28mm frame lines. And you can't see the shutter speed in manual mode anyway; take the camera way from your eye to check it. And remember to memorize the meaning of "dot above" vs. "dot below". And don't miss the brief appearance of your exposure compensation setting because it is invisible after you set it. And remember whether your frame lines are optimized for 1 meter or 2 meters. And you prefer having to press a button to check your ISO? I suspect the Fuji viewfinder will be too small, and we don't know how bright or responsive it will be. And the AF patch looks too big. But the information offered by the viewfinder is certainly practical and welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted September 21, 2010 Share #36 Posted September 21, 2010 yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted September 21, 2010 Share #37 Posted September 21, 2010 Are we looking the same picture or not? I counted some 7-8 different spots within the viewfinder various data. If we suggest that as "neatly organized" then we should call a "mess" when all these are consolidated in the lowest sector, away from the rest of the VF. I don't mind the possibility of displaying critical information in the VF, but this option must be a user choice. As it is, it's very intrusive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted September 21, 2010 Share #38 Posted September 21, 2010 Are we looking the same picture or not? Let's try this again. I've added notes in red and green. First the X100 then the M9. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/131794-should-the-m9-successor-have-a-hybrid-viewfinder/?do=findComment&comment=1446438'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 21, 2010 Share #39 Posted September 21, 2010 Outside or inside the framelines, I find the Fuji viewfinder filled with distracting info, scattered haphazardly around the viewfinder. To me is is a chaotic mess. Others may like it, so the most important switch would be the "info-off" one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted September 21, 2010 Share #40 Posted September 21, 2010 Let's try this again. I've added notes in red and green. First the X100 then the M9. Ok let's try again: Distraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and quoting some text: Distraction is the diversion of attention of an individual or group from the chosen object of attention onto the source of distraction. Distraction is caused by one of the following: lack of ability to pay attention; lack of interest in the object of attention; greater interest in something other than the object of attention; or the great intensity, novelty or attractiveness of something other than the object of attention.... In short, if fuji chooses to fill the right open space with some random nudes slideshow, chances are you will rather focus there It's filled with stuff what can we do? And most is useless information, about color temperature, or that right figure the 3025L. What is that L for what is that figure for? In return I would ask for external and internal temperature, so I know what to wear, wind speed so I know what speed to chose and so on... Zlatkob, you like it complex we get it, why don't you accept the rest that don't like it complex? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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