4/3rds new ammunition

[Ecaton]

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And since most, if not all of us, are constantly shooting black cats in pitch dark cellars, all we request are lightweight, compact, optically perfect f0.5 lenses, primes an zooms, and max DR, noise free sensors up to at least iso 25600, and everything at affordable, consumer level electronic prices.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[tobey bilek]

Those little consumer dslr with APS-C take fine pics that will impress you.

 

Build is barely ok and the lens is plastic fantastic, but the price is sort ok.

 

4/3 does not translate into common 4x6 prints so you cut off heads and get other nasty suprises. Better to start with 2 by 3 and lose the ends on the occasional 8x10.

[leicanut2]

Interesting post, now how many of you have a ep1 or gf1 or other 4/3 camera and why did you get it?

Me Gf1 - just a camera for shows where I needed a long lens it is small light and good range with the 45-200mm

I have had a mess of Leica point and shoot all of the D-lux ones 2, 3, and 4 and most the old film ones like z2x the old c line. I forget already was it c1 c2 c3 getting old, Ha, all of them I sold.

 

Cheers Jan

M9, 50 Lux, Viso111, 560mm for the viso.

Gf1, 20mm, 45-200mm, thinking about getting the leica 45mm, and soon the 100-300mm.

[stunsworth]

I have a gf-1 I bought it because it had a great 20mm lens, and could fit in a pocket. The sort of p&s camera I've been looking for for ages.

[phancj]

I've never seen Imants as being an 'angry' person. We've had a few falling outs over the years, but I tend to think that Imants sees himself as a pin that's looking for balloons to pop.

 

Overall he provokes thought, and that's a good thing IMHO, even if he doesn't always do it in a polite way.

 

I think it doesnt matter what he thinks he is, important thing is to have respect otherwise there is possibility of bad blood and that is sad...all I am trying is to have a healthy debate so name-calling is uncalled for. Period. You are entitled to see it differently, but I think encouraging him is not a good idea.

 

 

It depends on the manufacturer...

 

APS-C - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Yup but I was referring to the X1 sensor, since we are in this forum.

 

We compare and judge new cams like NEX or even X1 with our experience in mind, coming from RFs or SLRs.

But f.e. Sony doesn't want to cannibalize their Dslr sales by something which has a APS-C sensor etc. so the UI is like P&S. This is ok for younger folks coming from a Nokia portable. These people heard about reflex with mirror etc. from their grandparents. They have totally different behavior while shooting compare to us old farts, right?

 

Therefore it's wrong to take the size of a sensor as a ruler for what kind of shooting we might use it compare to a D300 or M8.

 

The only brands which offer cams with serious electronic viewfinder is Olympus and Pana. And?

They have minor marketshare with their DSLR or just like zero.

The third maker with an EVF is Ricoh, sitting in the same boat as the two.

 

When the 'big' 4/3 cameras had been introduced including Leica Digi3 I didn't accept a big body containing a small(er) sensor, not a good ratio of volume ./. surface of sensor. But this I gave up as I got more familiar with my Pen. Finding the menues traditionally ugly from Oly (Oly 5050 Wide), the Pen offers direct access to important settings. Fine.

 

For me a EP2 is the 'Modern Times M' - smaller capture surface, intelligent features in a small body wearing very good glass (Leica) for the long end and all the stuff in MF sitting on the shelf. Stabilized, of course.....

 

 

Yup, I also suspect sony may clip the nex wings so as not to cannibalize the alphas, and I am hoping not since the nex looks like a whole lot of potential there, though not now.

 

But I cannot agree with the EP2 as the modern M, the modern M is the M9:p

 

What makes you think they are maxed out? Each year, each sensor size gets better high ISO quality... what makes you think u 4/3 is maxed?

 

I think with maturity means closer to being maxed out, also the improvement looks to be slowing down anyway. Meanwhile the APS with its already larger size and relatively new development in the compact arena may hold much more potential. The moment they could compress an APS in X1 and Nex and a FF sensor in M9 I am convinced that the larger sensor is the way to go, with greater ultimate image quality when developed closer to its full potential. of course no one knows for sure what exactly is the max potential:)

 

But I think what is fact is all things being equal in terms of lenses and image processing engine, a larger sensor at the same stage of advancement will triumph over the smaller sensor.

[phancj]

I have a gf-1 I bought it because it had a great 20mm lens, and could fit in a pocket. The sort of p&s camera I've been looking for for ages.

 

Precisely, the issue of portability/IQ equation. The same goes for the X1 in my case. But I wouldnt want a gigantic lens on the X1/your GF-1, as all portability is lost. For me I bought the X1 given its larger sensor, but did in fact consider the GF-1 as well as the Ricoh. I think the GF-1 has a lot ore going for it than the Ricoh IMHO.

[jsrockit]

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The X1 and the GF1 are far from being truly pocketable though... when someone comes out with a Ricoh GR1 sized P&S with a u 4/3 sensor or bigger...then we will be in heaven.

[phancj]

The X1 and the GF1 are far from being truly pocketable though... when someone comes out with a Ricoh GR1 sized P&S with a u 4/3 sensor or bigger...then we will be in heaven.

 

Agreed, precisely my point on the future for micro 4/3 in my opinion. If they squeeze the APS-C just as small even better, though I doubt so given the required size of optics. Which is why I think the current mft are way too huge for their sensor size. They should do better than that! Like fit in out shirt pockets?

[johnwolf]

Yes, definitely, but comparing a larger and a smaller sensor with both close to being maxed out obviously the larger wins, thats all I am saying. The mft will be around for a while for this reason, as it is very developed for its class but with advsancement of APS-C compacts the difference in IQ will become apparent.

 

At print sizes to 12 x 16", I can't see any difference between output from my GF1 and 5DII. Others have said the same of their M8 and m4/3. So I don't think APS-C will ever be obviously better than m4/3, at least for prints.

 

Mike Johnston at TOP recently wrote that technology is now to a point at which IQ is not a significant differentiator for camera selection. I agree. At normal print sizes these camera systems are all superb.

 

John

[Guest badbob]

It seems to me that there's a lot of room for improvement in the lens technology that Leica is using. Casio introduced ceramic lenses several years ago as thinner and lighter than glass, and I don't know where that's gone. If Leica was willing to sell a much more expensive version of the X1 with a bigger, better lens that would collapse to the same size as the current lens, someone would buy it. But maybe not enough to justify a new model.

[Guest badbob]

At print sizes to 12 x 16", I can't see any difference between output from my GF1 and 5DII. Others have said the same of their M8 and m4/3. So I don't think APS-C will ever be obviously better than m4/3, at least for prints.

Mike Johnston at TOP recently wrote that technology is now to a point at which IQ is not a significant differentiator for camera selection. I agree. At normal print sizes these camera systems are all superb.

John

 

I sure disagree with this. You may see similar quality in "normal" prints when the images were taken under ideal conditions, particularly the lighting. But many people capture images under less than ideal conditions, and that's where you begin to consciously notice the differences. And even when you don't notice differences consciously, your brain still sees them, and it makes a difference in long-term satisfaction.

[jsrockit]

Badbob, do you really think the lens on the X1 is that bad?

[Guest badbob]

Badbob, do you really think the lens on the X1 is that bad?

 

No - quite the opposite. I think it's a very good lens. My comment was directed toward the micro 4/3 cameras with their smaller sensors. The X1 images will look consistently better, and I think the original poster was saying that they wouldn't look better.

[Guest stnami]

I was fishing with me mate X, caught one of those dodgie fanfish on one of those sexy sony lures ...................................... glad I left the cow bells bells and didn't go trolling

[Nicoleica]

Imants, wasn't there a sign on that lawn saying 'Don't smoke the grass.'?

[Guest stnami]

Beats eating the grass........................... back to the topic. Cosina/ Voigtlander stuff is primarily made with the Japanese market in mind so I don't know why people outside that market get their knickers in a knot. Then, I guess it is not surprising as there is that denial by some on LUF that the "lux" range in Leica is not a rebadged Panasonic product. Even the X1 is a hybrid the m's well they are a whole different ball game and there the primary player is Leica

[ravinj]

Since when was an APS sized sensor the benchmark by which quality was judged?

 

Benchmark is a standard of comparison used for judging performance. An object or a criteria selected for benchmark does not mean that it is of the highest quality. It merely indicates that it is of a reasonable quality and is commonly available. By this definition, APS sized sensors can be considered as a benchmark. It does not mean they are the best, but they good enough to be used as benchmark, especially when measuring quality of 4/3 sensors.

[ravinj]

Agreed, precisely my point on the future for micro 4/3 in my opinion. If they squeeze the APS-C just as small even better, though I doubt so given the required size of optics. Which is why I think the current mft are way too huge for their sensor size. They should do better than that! Like fit in out shirt pockets?

 

phancj, I see your point and you are logically correct. 4/3s main story was small size, medium size sensor, good IQ. Now Leica has shown small size, bigger sensor (than the 4/3) and better IQ. Same with Sony Nex, except that it is bogged down by a so-so lens. So 4/3s story becomes a bit weak here.

 

Now if Sony can come up with a stellar lens for the NEX, I would bet that it would technically leave 4/3 in the dust. Whether or not this translates into 4/3s demise would be hard to say. A game changer would be if Nikon comes up with a small body camera with APS sensor OR, if Canon or Nikon jump into 4/3 fray.

 

I thought the whole point of X1 was simplicity. You have a stellar fixed lens, decent sensor and that's it. This whole hodgepodge of 4/3s with their myriad lenses do not really compare to the likes of X1.

 

To date, X1 has the highest IQ in the smallest camera body. And that is what matters.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[pico]

I have the Panasonic/Lumix G1 and the quality with wide lenses is not even adequate for our shop's web work. Micro 4/3 is definitely out of the picture for us. Of course, Leica won't go there.

 

I hope.

[carcam]

Having an M9, X1 and GF-1, I'm always interested in these threads. Each has it's place and I truly love each one (like my kids) for their intended best uses. No matter what anyone says, there's no way the pictures look as good with the GF-1 as the M9 or X1. However, I find myself using the GF-1 more because of the fast focusing and wider dof and more pics that my friends and family like- not artistic or gallery pictures but memories captured (hate that word). To each his own. I think Imants could get great pics with an iPhone---