Removing click-stops?

[aymoon]

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Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post, so please allow me to introduce myself before I pose the question.

 

And even before that, I’d like to say thank you, first and foremost, to all you leica users who have made this forum so good. I’ve been reading it for a while and have really enjoyed all the knowledge and experience that you have shared. Thank you!

 

I’m a 34yr old film-maker based in London, England. I’ve been taking photographs since I got my hands on my father’s slr as a child (a beautiful Nikomat with a Nikkor 50mm/1.4 AIS). Since then I’ve used all sorts of different film and digital cameras, my current being a D3 with primes (24, 35, 50 & 85). I owned a Leica M6 a few years ago and I really miss it. Some of the best pictures I took were with that camera, and I’ve been waiting for the day I can get another Leica. That day is coming soon, and I plan to get both an M9 and an MP. I’m not sure about the lenses, though I have my heart set on the new 35 lux, and would consider a 50 lux too, though both seem difficult to get at the moment. I’m on the waiting list, but if I have to wait too long I may just go for crons (maybe 35 & 90). I can’t wait!!!

 

Now on to my question... I’d like to have the lenses function like cine lenses where the aperture ring rotates smoothly rather than clicking. I’ve had this modification done to my nikon lenses and they work perfectly. It took me a while to find someone who would do it, and they did so reluctantly as they had never done it before and were convinced that it would mess up the functions of my D3. In the end, it did exactly what I wanted, it works perfectly and I’m very happy with the modification. In case you are wondering, the nikon lenses now function similarly to rangefinder lenses in that the aperture changes while you rotate the ring and stays in place, rather than waiting for dof preview or the shutter to be pressed.

 

I’ve asked various Leica dealers around London, and they’ve all said that the work would need to be done by Leica in Germany. Leica’s official response was that they would not do it as the lens could not be guaranteed to function properly after such a modification. (Nikon said exactly the same thing!) So now I’m left looking for someone who is able and willing to do this for me.

 

To take things a step further, I’d also like to have the same thing done to the shutter dial on the camera body. (and before you ask, yes I am crazy! hehe)

 

Any ideas?

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[pico]

You might try RP Lens in the USA. They do Nikon, Canon, Zeiss ZF lense conversions for mopix.

 

They also make something like easy focus wheel I made for my Summilux 35mm nonASPH.

[Overgaard]

I know Leica in Solms can adjust the aperture feel into more "certain clicks" so I would expect they can do anything to soften it as well. In worst case they should be able to remedy "an error" by simply reversing it to how it is standardly (for the cost of labour and a piece of metal I guess).

 

As you live in London it would be easy to get them to Solms.

 

I have an older M lens that has no clicks, so I see what you say. You can adjust the exposure easily that way.

 

PS

A big welcome to the forum!

[rob_x2004]

...so I would expect they can do anything to soften it

 

Certainly Solms can. They took two good perfectly lenses and returned them with virtually no click stop and aperture rings that pretty much swing in the breeze.

On the MP I find it a pain in the preverbial because you do not have aperture displayed in teh viewfinder. The click stops identify where you are without having to look at the barrel, and help you keep your place during manual flash setup. But I appreciate that people want things different. The 9 display f/stop?

[aymoon]

thanks for your responses

 

@pico - "Aperture rings are dismantled to remove the click stops and to dampen the ring for smooth cine lens like setting and pulling." That's exactly the kind of service I'm looking for! I've sent them an email, though I'm a bit worried about export / tax etc... it could really bite. Do you know of anyone in Europe who would offer the same service?

 

@overgaardcom - yeah, it would be easy for me to get the lenses to Solms. I could even drive there in a day... I love going to Germany. Unfortunately, according to the official Leica store here in London, they've refused to do it. I guess I could call Germany directly and ask again, but I'm not hopeful. I just wish I had the email they sent me as it was pretty clear-cut, but I accidentally deleted it

 

@rob_x2004 - I don't mind if the aperture setting doesn't show in the viewfinder as long as the red exposure arrows / dot still work correctly. Theoretically they should work perfectly for you. Is that true?

+ it's strange that Solms did that work for you but said they won't do it for me. Could it be that they don't want to do it on new lenses? (assuming the ones you sent them were old?)

 

What's "The 9 display f/stop" ?

[giordano]

It should be very simple to remove the "click". Usually there is just a little metal ball in the body of the lens with a spring pressing it against the aperture ring, and little grooves inside the aperture ring at each stop and half-stop. As the ring turns, the pressure of the spring presses the ball into the groove. So removing the click stops simply means removing the aperture ring, removing the ball and the spring, and reassembling the lens without them.

 

The only complication I see is that Leica aperture rings are at the front of the lens and often very close to the focusing ring, while the Nikon ones are right at the back of the lens and less likely to be touched by accident. Also - click stops apart - the Leica ones move more easily. So whichever technician you use may need to somehow increase the friction so you're less likely to change aperture by accident.

[farnz]

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Malcolm Taylor might do it for you - he's based in Herefordshire. Please check your PM for his details.

 

Pete.

[andybarton]

On an R lens, it takes about two minutes and there is no spring, just a ball bearing about 1mm in diameter

[wildlightphoto]

On an R lens, it takes about two minutes and there is no spring, just a ball bearing about 1mm in diameter

 

The spring is recessed in a hole and the click stops are what stop the aperture lever at the pre-determined setting. Removing the ball is not recommended if you want accurate exposure.

[spydrxx]

Probably not convenient, but Ken Ruth at Photography on Bald Mountain in California could handle almost any job you wanted....he told me years ago when I had him do a mod for me, that he does a lot of special jobs for Hollywood film needs.

[aymoon]

The only complication I see is that Leica aperture rings are at the front of the lens and often very close to the focusing ring, while the Nikon ones are right at the back of the lens and less likely to be touched by accident. Also - click stops apart - the Leica ones move more easily. So whichever technician you use may need to somehow increase the friction so you're less likely to change aperture by accident.

 

I'm not so worried about nudging the ring accidentally, but the issue of friction/dampening is an important one. I'm not sure how the Leica's could be dampened effectively, but it must be possible. I'd much rather have a smoothly rotating ring with heavy dampening than one that flies and is therefore unstable. My nikon's rotate smoothly despite not having any special dampening in place. I'm sure the ball bearing and spring were simply removed without any other work, as you've suggested. Whilst it doesn't feel as smoothly geared as a cine lens, it does the job nicely.

[aymoon]

Malcolm Taylor might do it for you - he's based in Herefordshire. Please check your PM for his details.

 

Pete.

 

Thanks Pete, I really appreciate that. I'll give him a buzz on Monday so as not to disturb his weekend

[aymoon]

The spring is recessed in a hole and the click stops are what stop the aperture lever at the pre-determined setting. Removing the ball is not recommended if you want accurate exposure.

 

Yeah I was warned of this when I was attempting to do the conversions with my Nikon lenses. To be honest though, I've found the opposite to be true. Let me explain:

 

In order to get an accurate exposure for a scene (or just as relevant, a particular level of depth of field), it's very rare that I'll want to set the aperture to an exact f-stop or half-stop. What if I want to shoot closer to f2.7 or 4.1 or 5.8? At this point the click-stop becomes a complete pain in the....! I've found myself on countless occasions struggling to hold the aperture ring right on the edge of where it wants to click into place, without letting it click. At least that was before I had the mods done. Removing the click stops allowed me an infinite array of settings that I can make organically, much like the human eye, rather than a set number of iterations to choose from (eg. 15 on my nikkor 35). That's a limitation that drives me nuts, I'm afraid

[aymoon]

Probably not convenient, but Ken Ruth at Photography on Bald Mountain in California could handle almost any job you wanted....he told me years ago when I had him do a mod for me, that he does a lot of special jobs for Hollywood film needs.

 

Thanks for the contact, he'll be good to know regardless of whether I send this job his way or not.

[giordano]

The spring is recessed in a hole and the click stops are what stop the aperture lever at the pre-determined setting. Removing the ball is not recommended if you want accurate exposure.

 

Not quite. On typical SLR lenses it's the position of the aperture ring that matters, and the detents are only relevant insofar as they prevent the ring from moving as a result of the shock of halting the closing diaphragm. How much that is an issue varies between lens mounts; I've never noticed it as a problem with Nikkors (where the clicks are at full-stop intervals so one often sets the aperture between them) but the design of the coupling lever in the R mount might make it more of an issue.

 

But this isn't relevant to M lenses, and anyway the OP wrote that his modified Nikkors "now function similarly to rangefinder lenses in that the aperture changes while you rotate the ring and stays in place, rather than waiting for dof preview or the shutter to be pressed". I.e. the lenses have been converted to manual diaphragm, probably just by removing the F mount's coupling lever.

[aymoon]

I.e. the lenses have been converted to manual diaphragm, probably just by removing the F mount's coupling lever.

 

exactly right. I forgot to mention that was done to my D3.

[aymoon]

Removing the click stops allowed me an infinite array of settings that I can make organically, much like the human eye, rather than a set number of iterations to choose from (eg. 15 on my nikkor 35).

 

Correction - It was actually 8 iterations. I forgot that the nikkors only have full stops, and obviously had leicas on my mind . Thanks for reminding me John. It's been so long without the click-stops, and I really don't miss them.

[aymoon]

You might try RP Lens in the USA. They do Nikon, Canon, Zeiss ZF lense conversions for mopix.

 

They also make something like easy focus wheel I made for my Summilux 35mm nonASPH.

 

I got an email back from RP Lens... they offered to do the work for $35 per lens, in case anyone in the US wants this done.

 

They also recommended Les Bosher in the UK (a camera engineer based in Wales), as well as P+S Technik in Germany. I'll be following them up on Monday.

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[jacarape]

Hey aymoon, please let us know how it woks, I'm not really a fan of clicking on stops either, I'd really like a stiffer smooth adjustment for use on an MP.

[tobey bilek]

All you have to do is remove the aperture spring that opens it and the ball bearing/spring that seats in indents of the aperture ring. Then use the lens as a manual diaphragm lens of metering and other purposes. You have not regressed 50 years.

 

A leica has a ball also that can be removed. If you plan to sell it, it should be restored.