Leica Telephoto 135mm f/3.4 APO Telyt-M Lens

[BRJR]

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If you have or is familiar with this lens, how well does it perform on the M9? I am looking for a longer Leica lens, for use in addition to my Leica 90mm summicron, but have heard some unfavorable/mixed comments regarding use of this Leica 135mm f/3.4 lens with the M9?.

[BRJR]

Okay, disregard as I have found enough info on this lens in other threads/posts.

[adan]

I can't speak to the 135 APO on the M9, just the M8, the Epson R-D1 and film Leicas. My experience was that it is a superb lens, but that the focus mechanism is more hair-trigger than most versions of the older 135 f/4 Tele-Elmar I've encountered, so I did not have as much success with it.

 

The APO is sharper and/or contrastier than the TE at the larger apertures. Roughly a stop "better" - i.e the APO @ f/3.4 is sharper than the TE @ f/4.5, and as sharp @ f/4 as the TE at f/5.6, from which point they are about equal. But the focusing touch is lighter and looser which makes it more difficult to precisely bring the focus ring to a stop at exact focus.

 

I do use the 135 f/4 on the M9 quite a bit. Leica's recommendation is to use any 135 on the M9 stopped down to f/5.6 or more (which means not using the apertures where the APO beats the TE), and that is good advice if one is shooting things moving fairly fast. But f/4 is usable with a static subject where one can take one's time really nailing the alignment of the RF patches.

 

In this essay, the picture of the kid's eyes just showing above the computer monitor (#8) was shot with the M9 and 135 f/4 Tele-Elmar at f/4 - ColoradoSeen - Stories Index - Colorado's small libraries: Part 1 -

[menos I M6]

As Adan, I can't comment on using it on the M9, but the M8.2.

 

I don't have much experience with it, but bought one new 1 week before shooting at Le Mans.

I shot the lens wide open on the M8.2 and focussed the shots properly (no scale focussing or trap focussing of any kind).

 

My overall impression of this lens is, that it is worth every bit of it's full retail price!

It has been no issue, to focus the lens. I have had very little shots out of focus due to focus error (not more, than I have in similar circumstances with a Nikon D3 and fast supertele).

 

The lens is very light and compact, making it also a nice choice for traveling and having some reach at hand.

 

The focus is very smooth and light to the touch - much different form the fast Leica lenses like Noctilux or 90 Cron, which have a rather heavy, sticky feel.

 

Here is one 85kb sample from that weekend:

 

 

I have a few more uploaded on my new flickr account here.

 

I felt more comfortable, to focus the lens without magnifier, but advice to use a x1.4 magnifier with it, as it is easier for framing and focussing for some.

[adan]

I'll just add that on reviewing some pix and thinking about what lenses I like - if I didn't need a f/2 tele every so often, I could happily shoot with a 21/35/135 combo for everything. The 135's have the advantage that since their close-focus limit is 1.5 meters (which is what the framelines are designed for), the framelines are a little less inaccurate at infinity than for 75/90 lenses.

 

Dirk - focusing on a subject moving across the frame is a bit easier than focusing on subjects moving towards/away from the camera - but still, nice work!

[menos I M6]

…

 

Dirk - focusing on a subject moving across the frame is a bit easier than focusing on subjects moving towards/away from the camera - but still, nice work!

 

Andy, this is veeery true indeed!

We are talking race cars here though with speeds well over 100mph - got a few angled shot's as well, just not uploaded - the Le Mans set is still included in my backlog I am afraid :-(

Working with the 135 mm on walking people though should be no problem, as there is plenty of time to focus.

 

I use the 90 Cron quite a bit (also in Le Mans during the night) - I really feel, that the 135 APO is easier and quicker to focus spot on than the 90 Cron and the f1 Noctilux, which is easier to focus, than the 90 Cron as well (all subjective measurements of course, provided all 3 lenses match and eye sight is well adapted).

 

Thanks for the compliment ;-) I plan, to do more motor sports with the Leicas - if I only could free up more travel time ;-)

[chris_tribble]

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35 + 135 makes a surprisingly flexible basic travel kit. I use it a lot. Otherwise 28 + 50 + 135. This covers a lot of needs.

[menos I M6]

35 + 135 makes a surprisingly flexible basic travel kit. I use it a lot. Otherwise 28 + 50 + 135. This covers a lot of needs.

 

If there only would be a 28 Lux

[chris_tribble]

the speed / size / cost trade-off with the 28 cron asph works OK for me. 28 cron / 50 lux / 135 apo-telyt is a really light combination that lets you cover different kinds of landscape work, people, buildings. Being able to work with these lenses at their design FOV was the reason why I switched to the M9. I've never regretted the decision. BTW - I also have the 90 cron asph. I tend to take this out if I'm documenting events / weddings etc. 28 + 90 works very well in these situations (though the 135 will still be in the bag). Using a monopod + high ISO where you need it (feasible now that we have LR3) it's possible to get astounding results from this lens.

 

The family group below were taken handheld. I was focussed on the leading cow, but there's enough depth of field at f16 to deal with the group.

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[tom0511]

If there only would be a 28 Lux

 

24lux + 50lux + 135 works well too if you want f1.4 in your widest lens.

[Telyt2003]

I have made similar experiences with 135 mm lenses on digital M cameras (especially the excellent optical performance of the Apo-Telyt as compared to the very good Tele-Elmar, I would judge similarly to what adan and menos said).

 

My experiences with the 135 mm Apo-Telyt on (late) M8, M8.2 and M9 cameras are very positive. The Apo-Telyt delivers incredible results, that can be clearly better than with the Tele-Elmar, albeit the latter is already an astonishing lens. However, most Tele-Elmars are more tricky to focus probably due to their age and related need of service.

 

I would judge the smoothness of the Apo-Telyt focusing mount far superior to that of the Tele-Elmar (even freshly serviced according to my experience).

 

If I would be forced to keep only 2 lenses for my digital M, the 135 mm Apo-Telyt would be one of them (besides the 50 mm Summilux Asph).

 

Before buying mine, over a period of 2 years, I have checked any 135 mm Apo-Telyt that I could get my hands on with dealers and other owners, as well as at forum meetings and at the Leica Academy. If possible, I always tested them on several digital M cameras in addition to my own M8, and documented the results.

 

From this experience, well adjusted late M8 (serial numbers 35...), M8.2 and M9 cameras will focus spot-on with most Apo-Telyts (at aperture 3.4!, at least in the close range). On most older M8 cameras, the Apo-Telyt will more probably need some backfocus correction under this condition.

I would conclude that if your camera-lens combination focuses spot-on at fully open aperture (3.4) in the close range (1,5 to 2 meters), you will normally also manage to focus it at farer distances, albeit the need for focus compensation will become more likely from around 3 meters on with most cameras (including the M9).

In addition, the Apo-Telyt appears to display a slight amount of focus shift (Blendendifferenz) that, albeit small, needs compensation with such a lens. As a result, you may experience a bit of backfocus if you stop down to 4 or 5.6 as compared to 3.4. (On the other hand, if your camera-Apo Telyt-set is slightly frontfocusing at 3.4, you are more likely spot-on at 4 and 5.6).

 

In real photographing of moving objects (mostly animals and children), I was astonished after using Tele-Elmars and Elmars, how fast I got used to regularly and succesfully shoot with the Apo-Telyt wide open (apertures 4-5.6 and 5.6 are quite easy at distances around 5 to 10 metres, and also aperture 4 can be learned relatively fast, only 3.4 remains challenging if used for anything else than close distance).

 

The two prerequisites to profit from the enormous qualities of the Apo-Telyt are:

1) Your camera needs to be set very exactly to the specifications (or at least very close to, including that you know from experience how to correct minor deviations of your camera from accurate focus),

2) the Apo-Telyt, as any other highly corrected objective, needs to be set the same.

There is NO NEED to send camera and lens TOGETHER to the service for adjustment. Both camera and lens can be adjusted to specs separately, and there is no need to specifically 'adjust an M8/9 to a 135 mm lens'!

 

The often recommended need to stop down an Apo-Telyt or a Tele-Elmar on an digital M 'at least to 4-5.6 to get accurate focusing' is probably a myth. However, even with this aperture, only very accurate focusing will help, esp. if moving objects are photographed.

A 50 mm Summilux Asph. at full aperture (1.4) is not easier to focus than a 135 mm Apo-Telyt at 3.4! With respect to focusing accuracy and handling, they are pretty much in the same league, as are the 75 mm Apo-Summicron at 2, or any 90 mm lens at 2.5 (or even 2).

 

It is true that the Apo-Telyt can be focused without a magnifier. However, I would strongly recommand to use the new 1,4x magnifier with any 135 mm lens (at any aperture).

 

Same recommendation as with every highly corrected and highly opening lens when buying: Check it systematically (different apertures and distances) on your camera, and when in doubt, on the dealer's demo M8.2 and M9.

 

Telyt2003

[chris_tribble]

+ if you have the budget for the 24 lux

[menos I M6]

Fair point Tom - it is quite some amount of money to pay and then needing an external finder for precise framing. I love the 28 cron for what it is, just sometimes ISO2500 are not enough with it.

[UliWer]

...But the focusing touch is lighter and looser which makes it more difficult to precisely bring the focus ring to a stop at exact focus....

 

 

Never felt the focussing touch of the 3.4/135 Apo-Telyt unprecise or loose, but this may be as subjective as the answers to the questions whether the focussing throw of the 2/90 AA is too long (which I don't think), or of the 2/75 too short (where I agree).

 

There are the same different experiences about focussing exactly at mid ranges at f/3.4 or f/4 - i find this difficult and sometimes impossible; others have no problems.

 

Any way: he 3.4/135 Apo-Telyt-M has always been and will always be one of the best lenses ever made as far as contrast and resolution are concerned. I cannnot imagine that I should find a better one in this range.

[markowich]

the speed / size / cost trade-off with the 28 cron asph works OK for me. 28 cron / 50 lux / 135 apo-telyt is a really light combination that lets you cover different kinds of landscape work, people, buildings. Being able to work with these lenses at their design FOV was the reason why I switched to the M9. I've never regretted the decision. BTW - I also have the 90 cron asph. I tend to take this out if I'm documenting events / weddings etc. 28 + 90 works very well in these situations (though the 135 will still be in the bag). Using a monopod + high ISO where you need it (feasible now that we have LR3) it's possible to get astounding results from this lens.

 

The family group below were taken handheld. I was focussed on the leading cow, but there's enough depth of field at f16 to deal with the group.

 

sorry but where is the focus point? or is it diffraction at f16? nice family though---)))

peter

[BRJR]

Okay, disregard as I have found enough info on this lens in other threads/posts.

1. Thanks for all of your comments and photos; between what you presented here and what I found in the other Posts/Threads about the Leica 135mm f/3.5 lens, here in the M9 Forum ----- I had plenty of info to make my decision; and, as a result I just ordered this lens online from B&H Photo and should have it on Tuesday (17 August 2010). I am glad that I ordered this lens, when I saw it "in-stock", because after I had purchased it B&H was "temporarily out of stock" --- same as Adorama (another place where I tend to purchase my photography gear from).

 

2. Now, that I have just purchased this lens, I am likely to find that Leica is either in the process of replacing or upgrading it; as, I saw where one popular Leica Photographer seems to now imply that Leica is not manufacturing more Leica 90mm Summicrons (f/2.0) lenses right now because they are working on focus issues with the lens to make it a better lens for use with the M9 Sensor. If they are doing this for the 90mm f/2.0 lens --- likely the 135mm f/3.5 lens needs similar updating or refinement. BTW, this person was apparently told by Leica that the Leica 90mm Summarit-M (f/2.5) is a pretty good 90mm lens (so, I assume this lower price/newer Leica 90mm lens is already manufactured to take full advantage of the M9 Sensor --- also glad that I never got rid of mine; and especially, should we now (M9 Owners) have to send our 90mm summicrons, back to Leica for some work on them).

[menos I M6]

…, should we now have to send our 90mm summicrons, back to Leica for some work on them).

 

No, not really ;-)

 

After the new 35 Lux got announced and first samples made the rounds already, I purchased a new "old" 35 Lux ASPH for full retail, and I am most happy about my decision.

 

My 35 Lux works beautifully at all apertures and all distances. It doesn't stop, to work fantastic, because there is a newer model around.

 

The same for my pre ASPH 90 Cron - it is spot on sharp at close as at far distance - wide open and stopped down.

It is sharper in the center, than most of my Nikon DSLR glass (the 300 VR is sharper wide open, but I had no f1.4 or f2 Nikon, that matches the old Cron's sharpness wide open).

 

Don't get caught by new item announced angst - your new 135 Telyt and your 90 Cron will remain fine lenses.

Congratulations on the Telyt! When it arrives, test it on matching focus to your other lenses (infinity + close focus should be spot on with your other glass and you are fine).

 

Think about getting a magnifier for this lens,if you feel uncomfortable with framing or focus wide open, but be warned: focussing with the magnifier is more prone to an off axis eye position, than without magnifier - so you have to be more disciplined to a repeatable, strict eye position.

[BRJR]

No, not really ;-)

 

After the new 35 Lux got announced and first samples made the rounds already, I purchased a new "old" 35 Lux ASPH for full retail, and I am most happy about my decision.

 

My 35 Lux works beautifully at all apertures and all distances. It doesn't stop, to work fantastic, because there is a newer model around.

 

The same for my pre ASPH 90 Cron - it is spot on sharp at close as at far distance - wide open and stopped down.

It is sharper in the center, than most of my Nikon DSLR glass (the 300 VR is sharper wide open, but I had no f1.4 or f2 Nikon, that matches the old Cron's sharpness wide open).

 

Don't get caught by new item announced angst - your new 135 Telyt and your 90 Cron will remain fine lenses.

Congratulations on the Telyt! When it arrives, test it on matching focus to your other lenses (infinity + close focus should be spot on with your other glass and you are fine).

 

Think about getting a magnifier for this lens,if you feel uncomfortable with framing or focus wide open, but be warned: focussing with the magnifier is more prone to an off axis eye position, than without magnifier - so you have to be more disciplined to a repeatable, strict eye position.

Thanks, for the info and tips about matching focus --- actually, I 've owned and been using Leica gear for less than two years so far. Prior to purchasing my Leica M8.2, I wasn't even aware that Leica manufactured Digital-M Bodies.

[Guest mc_k]

...Leica is not manufacturing more Leica 90mm Summicrons (f/2.0) lenses right now...

 

is this true? Dealers seem to be still taking orders.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[BRJR]

is this true? Dealers seem to be still taking orders.

The article at this link, is where I saw that Leica has temporarily halted production of the Leica 90mm f/2.0 Summicron lens:

 

leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica 90mm Summarit-M f/2.5 tele lens and other Leitz and Leica 90mm lenses