White Balance Card Question

[RoySmith]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi All,

I have a WhiBal G6 studio card but after viewing Thorsten Overgaard's excellent video I decided to get a pocket WhiBal card. On the

RawWorkFlow site it appears that the G6 pocket WhiBal card has been replaced with the G7 Pocket Card:

This card has a smaller grey area than the G6 Pocket Card although it may still work.

I then decided to compare the white balance from the WhiBal to that from some free WilsonArt Laminate samples I read about here. (There are links on the page that allow you to order the samples free - Wilsonart even the paid the postage from the US to Canada)

I took this photo in daylight of the WhiBal Studio Card and the 3 Wilsonart Laminate samples:

When I use the white balance dropper in LR3, I get just as balanced RBG %'s with the grey Wilsonart Laminate as I do with the WhiBal.eg: WhiBal: R 59.1 G57.5 B 59.2 % Wilsonart: R 39.9 G38.6 B40.8 %

 

My Question is - are there advantages to getting a WhiBal G7 Pocket Card - or should I get a 2" by 3" Wilsonart Laminate D90-60 North Sea sample ? I presume that there could be significant sample to sample variation in the RGB neutrality of the Wilsonart samples.

Cheers,

Roy

[wda]

Roy, I would have expected your WhiBal test to be slightly closer to equal RGB than you show. I occasionally wipe mine with a moist soapy pad because it is surprising how much finger moisture and grime can accumulate on the surface.

 

I have two WhiBal cards; the previous generation of the pocket (fixed to an extending lanyard), and middle size (studio). Both give identical and excellent results. They certainly save time in achieving realistic and accurate colour balance. The exception in when you are sampling mixed lighting colour temperatures. I just choose the most important light source in the context of my subject.

 

Wilsonart is new to me; do they claim to be calibrated for neutrality?

 

If you are happy with studio WhiBal, why not get the latest pocket one? At least you know its provenance.

[RoySmith]

David,

 

Thanks for your reply. My WhiBal card has been cleaned recently.

 

The Wilsonart Samples are not meant for photographic use - they are a plastic laminate product, like Arborite, to be used on countertops etc. Its a product specified for use by Interior Designers and Architects and they do try to keep their colors very consistent. I doubt they are tested the same way that the WhiBal cards are. The advantage of the WilsonArt is that they are free.

 

2 days ago I tested the WhiBal vs the WilsonArt under tungsten light and fluorescent light and found that the RGB readings from the WhiBal were closer to neutral than the WilsonArt.

 

I have ordered a pocket sized card from WhiBal. I was curious to see how good these free "white balance" samples could be, and they are really very close.

 

For a photographer on a tight budget I think the WilsonArt Sample cards would be very usable and would be much better than nothing. However, I suspect that none of the users of this forum would fight the "tight budget" category.

 

During my testing I discovered that the Leica M9 white balance presets (fluorescent and tungsten etc) are significantly different temperatures than the LR3 white balance presets. When I took a photo of the white balance cards with the M9 set for tungsten, and then looked at the photo in LR3, the colors are very different when I select "As Shot" than when I select tungsten. (I am using a NEC Multisync LCD2690WUXI2-BK monitor that has been calibrated with the NEC wide gamut color sensor). I can see that having a white balance card with me at all times is really helpful.

 

Cheers,

Roy

[digitalpowershot]

Just ordered mine let's see how long it does take to arrive Austria.

 

If anyone is interested, there is a coupon "willmore" (15% off) enjoy! (be sure to use the michael tapes design homepage)

[Overgaard]

I think any card, white or any shade of grey can be used if it is close to neutral. That's the point of WhiBal that it claims to be "certified neutral"

 

For me it's more a standard to refer to for others. I would be happy to find any other brands that does the same.

 

The main problems with white balance card is that when you ask in most photo stores, they either don't have anything (because you can fix everything in the computer :-) or they find some grey cards for light metering: These are grey but not necessarily neutral.

 

But as you illustrate, one may find and test even a sort of white paper that is neutral and use that. It would work then.

 

Or if one could find a thin plate or a foil, one could attach that to for example the back of an iPhone so one always have a white balance card close by.

[hoppyman]

I have the small WhiBal card and also a mini Color checker (the large Color Checker is the target used for Adobe profiling).

In my experience the WhiBal gives significantly different results (to the Color Checker grey patches) when used in a control shot to set WB for a series then shot in same light.

[Overgaard]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have the small WhiBal card and also a mini Color checker (the large Color Checker is the target used for Adobe profiling).

In my experience the WhiBal gives significantly different results (to the Color Checker grey patches) when used in a control shot to set WB for a series then shot in same light.

 

Could you explain that more in detail?

[hoppyman]

For example, when I shoot a series of portraits in one location with consistent lighting, I might make one control exposure firstly with the model holding up a Whibal card and a color checker card. Then I set my white balance by sampling a neutral grey and apply that to all of the shots by synchronising that value.

 

What I have found in practice is that sampling from the relevant grey patch on the color checker target gives a different result than if I sample from the WhiBal grey. In theory both are neutral.

[Overgaard]

Yes that makes sense.

 

I haven't checked if the X-Rite color checker is more precise than the WhiBal, simply because the WhiBal is more compact and the one I can bring with me.

 

I would say the most valuable quality of the WhiBal (and any grey card) is that it gives you a consistency of workflow and a starting point. Often you want to change it in editing anyways.

 

But leaving it to Auto and chance to determine what the white balance should be is just leaving stuff undecided for later work on the computer.

[tobey bilek]

Whibal will get you perfect grey every time.

 

I have had my M8 only a few weeks and it is winter, so it is not conducive to dragging the large color checker outside. The Whibal is only a week old, so comparisons are difficult.

 

 

Last summer I did extensive testing with the large Color Checker and professional Nikon cameras. I was always able to get a perfect grey using the third from left grey or the next one darker. That accomplished, the rest of the colors were always off a little. The fix was to use photoshop and curves + black and white droppers to neutralize the white and black points. As an alternative using INDIVIDUAL RGB channels and levels. move the black and white points inward. Hold the option/alt key down and the screen will indicate when you reached the perfect point. You have now profiled the camera. If your monitor is calibrated properly, you can see the difference. I need to figure how to do this in ACR so as not to increase contrast. Some cameras have the whites well inside the histogram, others not so because of less DR. I am sure I can use the eye dropper read out and set the color in one of the panels. Feel free to experiment from this start.

 

If you have an old RC paper drying rack with the white base and black wire hoops, it makes a perfect holder for the color checker. Set it on a black cloth or blacktop drive so as not to color cast the card.

 

Summer sun is different than winter sun so there will be two WB set in the computer eventually.

 

The Leica sensor is set for Kodachrome look and maybe you like it , maybe not. But the color checker allows you to reprofile with little effort.

 

Always save the color checker values in curves, levels, or as a preset in ACR depending on how you do it. It becomes a one click change then for all photos.

[Jeff S]

I would say the most valuable quality of the WhiBal (and any grey card) is that it gives you a consistency of workflow and a starting point. Often you want to change it in editing anyways.

 

+1

 

And the WhiBal card is small enough that I am more likely to use it.

 

Jeff

[sandymc]

I'm not 100% sure about the X-Rite color checker, but on the original Gretag Macbeth 24 patch chart, the "neutral" patches aren't quite neutral. These are the LAB values of the six neutral patches (at least fairly recent ones, older charts varied a bit):

 

96.539, -0.425, 1.186

81.257, -0.638, -0.335

66.766, -0.734, -0.504

50.867, -0.153, -0.27

35.656, -0.421, -1.231

20.461, -0.079, -0.973

 

In sRGB terms, deviations of less than 1%. Practically, you probably won't notice that, but it is enough to make a small difference to white balance as done by dropper.

 

Sandy

[digitalpowershot]

Just ordered mine let's see how long it does take to arrive Austria.

 

If anyone is interested, there is a coupon "willmore" (15% off) enjoy! (be sure to use the michael tapes design homepage)

 

Finally I received mine. It did not take too long, if you consider we had New Year inbetween... Now I'm waiting for the M9-P to test the WhiBal

[digitalpowershot]

After using the card a few months now, I can say I'm impressed. I have perfect colors and I do not adjust the colors in Photoshop anymore! Getting the exposure right makes any adjustment in PS obsolete. I do not touch the files anymore. Leica should supply it with every camera they sell

[algrove]

One thing the OP did not mention if he was using the WhiBal card for RAW photos. To me the WhiBal is only used for JPEG images which I have started using with my M9 like Overgaard has well explained and thanks to him I now shoot RAW+JPEG Fine. It seems to put the histogram right down the middle with every frame. Using the WhiBal card gives me great latitude in deciding what my final will look like (since I now have a JPEG image too) and gives rapidity of finalizing an image.

[LeicaBraz]

Algrove: interesting. I have posed this same question in another thread.

1) WB does not make much sense to be adjusted in camera if you are shooting RAW only. I use Auto (which I don't particularly like in the M9) and then have a preset in LR4, followed by whatever adjustments needed or wanted.

2) I don't see much of a merit in having the histogram always down in the middle, if one follows the rule of exposing to the right (which true) amongst other variables.

 

But my question is basically if having the white balance set in camera by whatever method you chose has any effect on the exposure (which I guess not).

 

Thanks

[wda]

[quote=LeicaBraz;2071585....

1) WB does not make much sense to be adjusted in camera if you are shooting RAW only....

A common perception, but what it gives is a reliable consistent datum on importation into LR.. But let's not get too hung up about methodology. There are several ways of achieving an accurate result. I am always happier when I use either my WhiBal or ColorChecker. Using the latter is easier when shooting a calibrated patch because it is easier to fill the frame with a neutral color. The small WhiBal card is much smaller and better used as originally intended.

[IWC Doppel]

If I import raw only will a grey card not help setting the WB ? I know from experience when I have then failed to reset I have very off images later in the day ?

[algrove]

Algrove: interesting. I have posed this same question in another thread.

1) WB does not make much sense to be adjusted in camera if you are shooting RAW only. I use Auto (which I don't particularly like in the M9) and then have a preset in LR4, followed by whatever adjustments needed or wanted.

2) I don't see much of a merit in having the histogram always down in the middle, if one follows the rule of exposing to the right (which true) amongst other variables.

 

But my question is basically if having the white balance set in camera by whatever method you chose has any effect on the exposure (which I guess not).

 

Thanks

 

I found when try to ETTR that all too often I would blow the highlights and it would be even worse in LR, histogram wise. Now that I have put the histogram down the middle, I prefer my images and it makes RAW conversion easier for me. The screen is so small I found it too easy to go too far to the right. I do notice that the height of the histogram is higher when using the WhiBal card which I interpret as having more of each color. I do not have enough experience to know what to call "More". I must admit thought that I am new to PP and thus might change my mind again about ETTR. Of course when shooting RAW+JPEG the histogram down the middle is perfect for JPEG right out of the camera which I shoot so I can email images directly to my editor-sorry I mean my wife.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[microview]

Or you could simply buy an Expodisc (easily pocketed etc etc).........