sunil Posted July 23, 2010 Share #1 Posted July 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am curious about what Leica's strategy might be regarding the next generation of the S2. It is inevitable that with the success of the S2 they have to be thinking about the S3 at least from a technical perspective. Given they had no upgrade path from the M8 to the M9, is it conceivable they will take the same approach for the S3? How about all you S2 owners there, do you worry that having plunked down $23K for an S2 body, you might be staring at an obsolete electronic box 2 years from now or is that even a consideration? I can understand the lenses will continue on but given the box is the most expensive piece of hardware, are you at all concerned that it will cost a fortune to change to the S3? I imagine that if there is no upgrade path, the market for the S3 will be minuscule and probably not worth developing a new box for. Did Leica get their pricing strategy wrong? Perhaps they should have priced the box at $8K and doubled the prices of the lenses. At least that way they could have assured continuity of the S-family. Now, unless they have an upgrade path, I doubt the market for the next generation S will be big enough. Or maybe they think there will be enough new converts who will plunk down the big bucks for the S3. Somehow I don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Hi sunil, Take a look here Will there be a market for the S3?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted July 23, 2010 Share #2 Posted July 23, 2010 People who bought or buy the S2 know exactly what they are doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMacD Posted July 23, 2010 Share #3 Posted July 23, 2010 The S2 may never be "obsolete" in that the camera will continue to function after a S3 or S4 comes out. I still have a Canon 1Ds that I never upgraded to a mark 2,3,or 4. I am more than satisfied with the S2, had I not been, I would have waited for an S3 before purchase. I will not have a need to upgrade to an S3. As technology progresses, I suppose the sensor will get more resolution, or the ISO will improve, or the buffer will get faster, but these are not reasons for me to upgrade very fast. The body is fine, the need for more lenses are what most people express. The lenses have been announced, just not produced yet, so even here, most users will not ask for lenses that have not been discussed, they will merely ask for announced lenses to be produced. So yes, a S3 will eventually come along, but I suspect it will merely appeal to a new entrant to the S system. Meanwhile, many S2 will have earned enough to pay for an S3. That said, many users will choose to upgrade and have a backup body, or sell the S2 used. At that point, Leica will have an entry level S camera called a used S2. The photographer who bought four S2s for his studio, probably will not buy four S3's the first day out, but may buy one.at a time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggi Posted July 25, 2010 Share #4 Posted July 25, 2010 When there is a Leica S3 you can use your S2 and all your lenses as before. A M8 owner also can use his camera and buy lenses. But what will you do, if Leica stops the S-line abruptly, as they did with the Leica R. You can't use the S-lenses with oher bodies! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted July 25, 2010 Share #5 Posted July 25, 2010 When there is a Leica S3 you can use your S2 and all your lenses as before. A M8 owner also can use his camera and buy lenses. But what will you do, if Leica stops the S-line abruptly, as they did with the Leica R. You can't use the S-lenses with oher bodies! I'm still using my R bodies. They still work as before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMacD Posted July 26, 2010 Share #6 Posted July 26, 2010 There is a solution for R lenses on Canon bodies if you shave the mirror a bit to allow clearance, have you tried that? The true trauma of R users is there is no longer an L-camera forum sub forum for the R system! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtomalty Posted July 27, 2010 Share #7 Posted July 27, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Bear in mind that only a very few R lenses need to be modified to deal with mirror clearance on Canon bodies Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted July 27, 2010 Share #8 Posted July 27, 2010 Even if Leica is forced to abandon the S2 (unlikely), so what? Kyocera dumped the Contax years ago and those cameras keep going on and on. This S2 is a different animal than a MFD camera ... and it'll be awhile before 35mm DSLRs catch up to it in IQ if at all ... so it's a pretty safe bet that if it works for you now, it'll do the job later. I'm hoping for a S3 at roughly the same price point as the S2. Then I can get a S2 for less : -) -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 27, 2010 Share #9 Posted July 27, 2010 Even if Leica is forced to abandon the S2 (unlikely), so what? Kyocera dumped the Contax years ago and those cameras keep going on and on. Doesn't this example undercut your point? Isn't that because it can still accept the latest backs from Phase One and Leaf? But if the Contax had only a fixed back with an outdated sensor, they probably wouldn't be used that much today. The S2 is a closed system and you will have to have faith that Leica will periodically update the system to keep it state of the art and viable as time goes by. (If this is important to you.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunil Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted July 30, 2010 True. The other issue is one of service. Its one thing to be able to service a mechanical camera from 50 years ago as Leica have admirably done, but an electronic gadget is another animal I think. If they discontinue the line and you end up with a sensor problem, the only solution is a replacement of the sensor which presumably is not being manufactured any more. I am sure they have a well thought through plan for the S-family and I can only hope they have an upgrade path in mind as well. It sure would make it easier to purchase the S2, at least for me. Doesn't this example undercut your point? Isn't that because it can still accept the latest backs from Phase One and Leaf? But if the Contax had only a fixed back with an outdated sensor, they probably wouldn't be used that much today. The S2 is a closed system and you will have to have faith that Leica will periodically update the system to keep it state of the art and viable as time goes by. (If this is important to you.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted August 4, 2010 Share #11 Posted August 4, 2010 Well, as pointed out, a modular MF camera doesn't get outdated as quickly ... DUH! on my part. But service for the Contax 645 was kept alive for a good amount of time, and I believe it still is available even though the C645 is primarily an electronic kit, as are the lenses. I guess the question is, how much do you need? A 40 meg, larger sensor is a lot, and will stay "a lot" for quite a few years. -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunil Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted August 6, 2010 I found that with the mechanical (read film) M cameras, I rarely felt the need to upgrade to the newer models, largely because the medium itself stayed indifferent to the camera so an upgrade added convenience primarily. With digital cameras, the "medium" tends to be the electronics in one form or another and makes a difference to IQ. So 5 years from now, if the competition is hanging around 200 MP for whatever reason, it will be hard not to feel that my 37.5 MP is just not up to the task, whether real or perceived. So while I may not "need" the 200 MP Phaselblad, my perception of why my photos aren't up to snuff will likely be my 37.5 MP. This is unfortunate but true for most of us otherwise camera manufacturers would be out of business rapidly. Actually, given the quality of my photographs and my lack of artistic talent, I could probably do just fine with a 5MP point and shoot but here I am looking at eventually buying an S2. Go figure. (Not all super car owners after all are F1 drivers). "I guess the question is, how much do you need? A 40 meg, larger sensor is a lot, and will stay "a lot" for quite a few years." -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 6, 2010 Share #13 Posted August 6, 2010 "I guess the question is, how much do you need? A 40 meg, larger sensor is a lot, and will stay "a lot" for quite a few years." -Marc My thought is that if you don't know that you need 37 megapixels of resolution, then you probably don't need it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lieberdavid Posted August 9, 2010 Share #14 Posted August 9, 2010 Hi Everyone, Does any one here have an idea how many S2 camera bodies have been sold so far? Cheers! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunil Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted August 9, 2010 Hi Everyone, Does any one here have an idea how many S2 camera bodies have been sold so far? Cheers! David Good question but I doubt anyone really knows other than Leica and they certainly are not going to divulge this data. People can make "educated" guesses. Making wild assumptions, here is what I come up with: There are 50 serious dealers in the US selling the S2 They sell 1 every month. The S2 has been sold for the past 5 months so each dealer on average has sold 5 through the end of July. That is a total of 250 S2s sold in the US. The US accounts for 60% of Leica's market so approximately 400 have been sold worldwide so far. What is your wild assumption? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 9, 2010 Share #16 Posted August 9, 2010 Hi Everyone, Does any one here have an idea how many S2 camera bodies have been sold so far? Cheers! David Good question but I doubt anyone really knows other than Leica and they certainly are not going to divulge this data. People can make "educated" guesses. Making wild assumptions, here is what I come up with: There are 50 serious dealers in the US selling the S2 They sell 1 every month. The S2 has been sold for the past 5 months so each dealer on average has sold 5 through the end of July. That is a total of 250 S2s sold in the US. The US accounts for 60% of Leica's market so approximately 400 have been sold worldwide so far. What is your wild assumption? For this rubbish, and the OP, you've earned a place on my ignore list. See ya. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 9, 2010 Share #17 Posted August 9, 2010 Good question but I doubt anyone really knows other than Leica and they certainly are not going to divulge this data. People can make "educated" guesses. Making wild assumptions, here is what I come up with: There are 50 serious dealers in the US selling the S2 They sell 1 every month. The S2 has been sold for the past 5 months so each dealer on average has sold 5 through the end of July. That is a total of 250 S2s sold in the US. The US accounts for 60% of Leica's market so approximately 400 have been sold worldwide so far. What is your wild assumption? Excuse me? Turnover numbers 2009: ( Million Euro) Germany............18.49 Europe................53.13 Asia/Aus.............51.15 USA/CDN/MEX..34.69 Rest.......................4.76 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 9, 2010 Share #18 Posted August 9, 2010 That makes the US/CDN/MEX market worth about 21% of Leica's whole market, by turnover, almost exactly half of the European market and 2/3 of the Asian market. I actually think that the previous poster was just guessing. No one, except Leica, knows how many S2s are being sold, per dealer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 9, 2010 Share #19 Posted August 9, 2010 Not Redbaron, Sunil. The quote marks have gotten mixed up. Actually iirc, the statement by Dr. Kaufmann mentioned that it did better than expected. As we know the expectation was about 1000 units per year, that would make it in excess of 400. How much in excess, nobody knows, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 9, 2010 Share #20 Posted August 9, 2010 Spotted that - thanks I have just been back and tidied the quotes as it was very confusing for a person of limited brain like me to follow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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