Please advise on my 90mm Summicron woes

[ianspector]

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I bought the APO Summicron 90mm new with my M9 last December. I could never get a sharp image with it and figured it was my inability to focus. I bought a 50 Noct, 28 Cron, 35 Cron and 50 Cron. Every lens is bightingly sharp and I can nail the focus of the Noct at f/1 just about every time. Thus my 90mm was left abandoned until May when I sent it back to Solms for adjustment. Two months later (yesterday) it arrived back. I took a few shots at f/2 at minimum focus distance and saw the crazy sharpness that everyone talks about. I then took some shots at medium to infinity distance at f/2 and could not get one that was even close to sharp. Even infinity seemed soft. The focus seems a bit stiff and sticky and that does not help, but I took much care focussing on each subject from in front and then beyond focus.

 

This gives me a number of problems. I would never sell a lens in this state. All my other lenses are a picture of razor sharp delight on my M9 so I do not want Solms tinkering with my M9. Do I just keep sending the 90 by to Solms until they get it right. Would you do a series of bench tests to get a very complete understanding of the issues. Should I try the 90 on my MP and see if those results are sharp, or would that just open up more questions.

 

 

Frankly I am so delighted with my 28/35/50 Crons I would not care if I never saw this troublesome lens again.

 

Thank you so much, as ever, for your help.

 

Ian

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[DFV]

I have had similar problems before with a pre-ASPH. Elmarit 21mm. I suggest you document with test shots and samples. Add them on a CD with your explanations on paper and send it together with the lens back to Solms. This usually gets the lens fixed or exchanged. It is a pain but it will be well worth it, eventually.

 

Like all CRONs the 90mm should be sharp, very sharp.

 

Good luck!

[mwilliamsphotography]

I don't know about other people's experiences, but in my search for a M90mm, I bought 3 different 90AAs and none of them focused properly at portrait distances. I tried 2 different 90/2.5s, one new, one used ... and neither focused properly at all distances. The M9s I use properly focuses all my other lenses ... including a 50/0.95 and 75 LUX.

 

One fairly knowledgable seller told me that DAG told him the 90AA can be calibrated to focus wide open at close distances, or mid-distances, but not both. This seems to match your recent recalibration experience where Leica seems to have calibrated for closer distances.

 

I finally gave up my search (what a huge PITA buying, testing, and returning lenses).

 

I now have a $800. later model M90/2.8 that focuses perfectly at all distances, is sharp as a tack, has that 3D look, and produces beautiful Bokeh.

 

Sometimes Newer isn't the best path to Better : -)

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[ianspector]

I don't know about other people's experiences, but in my search for a M90mm, I bought 3 different 90AAs and none of them focused properly at portrait distances. I tried 2 different 90/2.5s, one new, one used ... and neither focused properly at all distances. The M9s I use properly focuses all my other lenses ... including a 50/0.95 and 75 LUX.

 

One fairly knowledgable seller told me that DAG told him the 90AA can be calibrated to focus wide open at close distances, or mid-distances, but not both. This seems to match your recent recalibration experience where Leica seems to have calibrated for closer distances.

 

I finally gave up my search (what a huge PITA buying, testing, and returning lenses).

 

I now have a $800. later model M90/2.8 that focuses perfectly at all distances, is sharp as a tack, has that 3D look, and produces beautiful Bokeh.

 

Sometimes Newer isn't the best path to Better : -)

 

That is truly depressing news. I shoot at minimum focus distance as well as at mid and long range distances. I also shoot wide open for much of the time. If I am going to sell it what is the fairest way to describe it?

 

Thanks for your reply, you may have saved me much time sending the lens back and forward. Very nice image from the 2.8. I am sure that lens is much lighter as well.

 

Ian

[jaapv]

I( had a bit of a hassle with the 90AA, the forum member who sold it to me had it done by Leica. it was good, but not perfect, so Will van Manen sorted it completely for me. Then it was excellent.

[DFV]

Hmmm, will take a look again this weekend yet I am almost positive my CRON AA 90 is right on the money, near and far...

[lars_bergquist]

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A heretical thought: The 90mm Summarit is an excellent lens, and only 2/3 of an f-stop slower. (Let's not talk about the price.) It is also considerably lighter. Lower bling factor, though ...

 

The old man who barely escaped the pyre

[sclamb]

I had a 90mm APO ASPH which I used with my M6 and it was sharp at all distances, from wide open to stopped down. Not sure why you would only be able to get sharp focus either near or far - you should expect sharp focus at any distance.

 

Simon

[Nicoleica]

A heretical thought: The 90mm Summarit is an excellent lens, and only 2/3 of an f-stop slower. (Let's not talk about the price.) It is also considerably lighter. Lower bling factor, though ...

 

The old man who barely escaped the pyre

 

I agree 100% Lars, and will now also climb up onto the pyre.

 

Han til Ragnarok!

[sclamb]

Whilst the 35 and 75 Summarits are probably regarded as the best performers, I think they are all an amazing bang for the buck, and worthy lenses.

 

Simon

[ianspector]

Hmmm, will take a look again this weekend yet I am almost positive my CRON AA 90 is right on the money, near and far...

 

Are you sure that you want to, if you are happy then my view tends to be not to test. I would hate for you to discover something.

 

Ian

[ianspector]

A heretical thought: The 90mm Summarit is an excellent lens, and only 2/3 of an f-stop slower. (Let's not talk about the price.) It is also considerably lighter. Lower bling factor, though ...

 

The old man who barely escaped the pyre

 

This actually fits in with my Leica Lens Evolution (LLE). When I first entered Leicaland I wanted the fastest glass because after a D3 and all the pro glass everything was featherweight. After waiting forever for a 50 Lux to arrive and for the 35 Lux to be announced I changed my strategy. I have one lens for low light and ultra shallow depth of field, the 50 Noctilux 1.0, and every other lens should be the best performer in terms of size, weight, rendition. Thus I ordered a 35mm Cron and 50mm Cron. I am ecstatically delighted with those two lenses. They are just so wonderful to use. Thus during the day I will be out with the 50 Cron on my M9 and the 35 Cron on the MP (or vice versa). At night I just use the 50 Noct.

 

Thus, were I doing it again I would have chosen a smaller 90. Now, I just want to get my 90 as straight as possible and sell it. Sad, as it has probably got less than 200 clicks on it.

 

Ian

[ianspector]

I( had a bit of a hassle with the 90AA, the forum member who sold it to me had it done by Leica. it was good, but not perfect, so Will van Manen sorted it completely for me. Then it was excellent.

 

I am a little surprised that Leica finds it hard to get this adjusted right themselves and first time. They must test it before sending it back, is there a tolerance that they say is normal. Mine is not even close. If I am focussing near infinity and turn the focus a smidge anti-clockwise before pressing the shutter then the image is way sharper.

 

Is it reasonable to expect that infinite focus be on the end stop, or do people focus for infinity through the viewfinder?

 

Ian

[jaapv]

It is not unknown for this to happen. Mind you, I had it the other way around as well.

[bocaburger]

I now have a $800. later model M90/2.8 that focuses perfectly at all distances, is sharp as a tack, has that 3D look, and produces beautiful Bokeh.

 

Sometimes Newer isn't the best path to Better : -)

 

I agree with that. I owned one of those late-model Elmarits and agree it's stellar. But then one day I stumbled on a minty late-model 90 pre-APO Summicron and found that it performs amazingly identical to the Elmarit from f/2.8 on down. At f/2 it has lower contrast, but the same nice creamy OOF rendition. Perfect for portraiture, I think. (Ended up selling the Elmarit and getting a late-model light-weight Tele-Elmarit just for my travel outfit.)

[glenerrolrd]

My experience with the 90 AA has been excellent..I must be lucky as my copy has focused accurately at all distances . This lens has given me the least problems of any of the telephoto M lenses.

 

Don t be so sure it not the body..it is possible for other lenses to appear to focus perfectly and still have the body being the right place to calibrate. If a lens focuses to a decent std at close distances and appears off at distance ..its almost always the body.

 

I had the same discussion with DAG...its not impossible its just darn difficult . The most difficult lens DAG calibrated for me was the 135APO ..at over 20ft ..its has such a micro throw that its just hard to focus. I was shooting baseball at about 150ft and tennis at 100ft...a good test . Three tries to get it and we had to match the body for the final test. You have to stack the magnifiers 1.4x and 1.25X to do a test accurately.

 

Calibration is a range not an absolute position and for precision you have to fit the lenses to the body. Believe me I fought this for 18 months . Send your body and the lens to DAG and then retest everything .

[adan]

Way back when, the late Leica rock photographer Jim Marshall said that when he got a Leica tele that focused well on a camera, he never took it off the camera again.

 

There are tolerances in the manufacture of both lenses and camera rangefinders. If one gets a camera within tolerance (but at one edge of the tolerance range) and a lens also within tolerance (but at the other end of the tolerance range) the combined in-tolerance may be more than the RF can handle.

 

OTOH, the missed tolerances may be opposite in direction, and thus cancel out.

 

I found out the first year I was using Leica M that I needed to test ANY lens longer than 50mm on MY camera before buying - at all distances.

 

I would not, myself, be unwilling to sell a lens just because it did not pair well with my camera. It may be perfectly capable and well-tuned to someone else's body. I'd assume the buyer is as vigilant as I am in checking out equipment, and give them a reasonable amount of time to do so if they can't check it "in person" at the time of sale.

 

As mentioned, the 90 pre-APO f/2 is often more forgiving. It has spherical aberrations which make it not as sharp at f/2 but give it a slightly wider range of "as sharp as it's going to get," making it easier to use if one can live with "very good" as opposed to "outstanding."

[bocaburger]

As mentioned, the 90 pre-APO f/2 is often more forgiving. It has spherical aberrations which make it not as sharp at f/2 but give it a slightly wider range of "as sharp as it's going to get," making it easier to use if one can live with "very good" as opposed to "outstanding."

 

Or, put another way, if one can live with "very good" as opposed to chasing an elusive promise of "outstanding" from one repair shop to the next

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[henning]

I don't know about other people's experiences, but in my search for a M90mm, I bought 3 different 90AAs and none of them focused properly at portrait distances. I tried 2 different 90/2.5s, one new, one used ... and neither focused properly at all distances. The M9s I use properly focuses all my other lenses ... including a 50/0.95 and 75 LUX.

 

One fairly knowledgable seller told me that DAG told him the 90AA can be calibrated to focus wide open at close distances, or mid-distances, but not both. This seems to match your recent recalibration experience where Leica seems to have calibrated for closer distances.

 

I finally gave up my search (what a huge PITA buying, testing, and returning lenses).

 

I now have a $800. later model M90/2.8 that focuses perfectly at all distances, is sharp as a tack, has that 3D look, and produces beautiful Bokeh.

 

Sometimes Newer isn't the best path to Better : -)

 

 

This has been my experience exactly. I got a 90AA when it came out, and kept it for a number of years. I could never get it to work correctly. I now have a late 90 Elmarit with which I am very happy, and have kept my 90 T-E which I got a very long time ago. That lens has no flare, but it's a bit soft at wider apertures. On the other hand, I like many of the pictures I've shot with it, and it has produced way more keepers than the AA.

 

My fast lenses such as the Noctilux and 75/1.4 focus fine on my M9 and 8's.

 

Henning

[DFV]

Are you sure that you want to, if you are happy then my view tends to be not to test. I would hate for you to discover something.

 

Ian

 

Well, you have a point. However, what I will be ultimately checking is my eyesight. I usually see these things right away and I would be very surprised if the Summicron was wrong and I have not noticed by now.