35 Lux 'M' on the M9

[D&A]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi Tim & All,

 

I'll mention a couple of things.

 

1. Although the optics of the new 35mm Lux Asph is basically the same as the previous version, I wonder if the floating element design of this particular lens is having some effect on the bokeh and OOF areas? I certaintly don't want to speak for him, but a while ago Jono posted some images he took with the New 35mm Lux Apsh and some noticed right away a very busy bokeh on a couple of his images, most notbaly one with folliage in the background...sort of like Tims image.

 

Althought it can't be said for certain and would definitely be a premature statement,(without a side by side comparison)...but I don't recall seeing quite the pronouced "busy" type of background I've seen in some of the images produced by this new lens when compared to the previous version...although the previous version wasn't noted to have the greatest possible bokeh, but certainly pleasing. Guess time will tell if this new lens differes from the previous one, in this regard.

 

While many of the posts in this thread are primarily focusing (no punn intended) on the bokeh issue....what concerns mesomewhat is Tim experiencing slight focusing miscalibration of this lens which results in softer than ususal images when using the RF patch for focusing. I would hope its a "one off" and not something thats in the initial run of these lenses.

 

Tim, I can feeel your fustration as many of us do....especially being aware of your initial postings with your original 35mm Lux Asph on the M8. Please keep us posted.

 

Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

[leicashot]

Hi Tim & All,

 

I'll mention a couple of things.

 

1. Although the optics of the new 35mm Lux Asph is basically the same as the previous version, I wonder if the floating elemtn design of this particular lens is having some effect on the bokeh and OOF areas? I don't want to speak for him, but a while ago Jono posted some images he took with the New 35mm Lux Apsh and some noticed right away a very busy bokeh on a couple of his images, most notbaly one with folliage in the background...sort of like Tims image.

 

Althought it can't be said for certain and would definitely be a premature statement,(without a side by side comparison)...but I don't recall seeing quite the pronouced "busy" type of background I've seen in some of the images produced by this new lens when compared to the previous version. Guess time will tell.

 

While many of the posts in this thread are primarily focusing (no punn intended) on the bokeh issue....what concerns mesomewhat is Tim experiencing slight focusing miscalibration of this lens which results in softer than ususal images when using the RF patch for focusing. I would hope its a "one off" and not something thats in the initial run of these lenses.

 

Tim, I can feeel your fustration as many of us do....especially being aware of your initial postings with your original 35mm Lux Asph on the M8. Please keep us posted.

 

Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

 

From experience and seeing other people's images i don't recall the 35/1.4 ever having nice OOF. It's not bad, but never great. It was always praised for it's sharpness wide open but never it's smooth OOF. The 50 Lux asph, is a very different story.

[D&A]

I agree...the previous Leica 35mm Lux Asph wasn't noted to have the finest bokeh...simply pleasing. Whether the OOF area of the new version is busier, its hard to know at this time.

 

Dave (D&A)

[tashley]

Thanks for the sympathy and thoughts everyone.

 

I totally agree that you can't tell bokeh from such a small sample and I also know well that the foliage shot I posted is a sort of bokeh torture test. I'll be doing some more tests when I get my replacement lens - I spoke to my dealer, Caplan in London (marvellous people, very helpful and friendly) and they hope to get another one in for me quickly and this one we'll test in store.

 

This morning I set up the tripod and shot every lens I own at whatever their wide open aperture is plus a shot at F2.8. All were focussed with the 1.4x magnifier, my eye, with just one best-efforts attempt (like I say I trust my M9 and I trust my eye, under these conditions at least!) and to my absolute satisfaction all the lenses focussed perfectly apart from the 35M Lux. My F1 Nocti was the next worst but that's because it is soft wide open (that's why I like it!) and it does certainly suffer from focus shift...

 

It occurs to me by the way that there will likely be a glut of last-gen 35 luxes coming to the second hand market now the new model has arrived. Historically it would have been a lottery as to whether you got one with acceptable focus shift or not (some appear to have the focus calibrated fully to the front so as you stop down to F4 the subject stays *just* in the zone). Now, however, anyone with a Micro 4/3rds camera and an adaptor can ascertain the quality of the lens in moments by using a tripod and 10x magnified view, focussing wide open and then simply observing the rear screen as you stop down.... just a thought!

 

@ the topic as to whether I am just unlucky, I don't think so... I always test everything I buy as soon as I can because the fact is that a lot of stuff, even very expensive stuff (I had three S2s in a row with sensor problems, and a lot of my Medium Format gear has not been perfect from the get-go) is often delivered in an unsatisfactory state. I do think FWIW that a lot of people just don't notice that their gear is performing less well than it could or should and that the math of QC states that lowering the bar is cost effective in terms of the proportion of sub-optimal stuff that gets sent back :-(

100% crops from this morning. The first is the Skopar 35 at F2.8 and the second is the 35M at F2.8 and they are representative of all other trial shots I've made. Every other lens I have focussed this crisply first time whether wide open or at F2.8....

 

 

[Artichoke]

it doesn't look like Leica has a winner with this lens

the 28 'Cron and 50 'Lux both do better in the bokeh department

I suspect this version will have a short run

maybe its time for Leica to re-think its optical formula for the 35 'Lux

I suspect Leica's designers are overwhelmed with all the new M & S lens designs they are cranking out

[erlingmm]

it doesn't look like Leica has a winner with this lens

the 28 'Cron and 50 'Lux both do better in the bokeh department

I suspect this version will have a short run

maybe its time for Leica to re-think its optical formula for the 35 'Lux

I suspect Leica's designers are overwhelmed with all the new M & S lens designs they are cranking out

 

Strong conclusions from extremely small sample. Got mine today. Focus spot on. Nice bokeh in my garden ;-)

[rosuna]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Tim,

 

is that the new 35mm Summilux?

 

It looks like the older one. My ASPH Summilux from 2007 behaves just like you are showing: impossible to get proper focus at any distance, except if you close the diaphragm to f/5.6 of f/8. It backfocuses systematically. You can correct the problem focusing in front of the subject, but many times you don't have a point of reference there. So I try to guess how much front focusing I have to do. Sometimes I got it, sometimes do not.

 

The lens is usable for street photography just because I do a lot of pre-focus, and the subject is moving. The frustration comes when you try to get a sharp picture of a static subject. Then, the only way to be sure is to check on the LCD screen. The M8 screen isn't very good, so many times, when I am in a hurry, I cannot be sure and take several pictures for safety, when possible.

 

I love the "physicality", size and form of the M camera, but considering focus precision... I can say the M8 is a problematic tool when used with fast lenses. Not so important for street photography, but a bit irritating when you try to do a portrait, etc. My 75mm Summilux isn't easy to focus either.

 

Maybe it cannot be avoided, even if the rangefinder/viewfinder is somewhat improved. There are limits to the accuracy the system can provide, considering practical tolerance margins. When the sensor resolution increases, the problem will be worse. In the end, live view on a good screen is the best solution.

[michael_b_elmer]

... to my absolute satisfaction all the lenses focussed perfectly apart from the 35M Lux. ...

 

Now, however, anyone with a Micro 4/3rds camera and an adaptor can ascertain the quality of the lens in moments by using a tripod and 10x magnified view, focussing wide open and then simply observing the rear screen as you stop down.... just a thought!

 

@ the topic as to whether I am just unlucky ... a lot of of stuff, even very expensive stuff is often delivered in an unsatisfactory state. ... Every other lens I have focussed this crisply first time whether wide open or at F2.8. ...

 

Isn't it strange how some people have bad luck all the time with Leica gear - but not with Voigtländer Skopar - whereas others - like myself - have never had any problems worth mentioning?

 

Just for the sake of good order: I only use Leica lenses on Leica cameras, and I use the correct glasses to correct my faulty eyesight.

[tashley]

Isn't it strange how some people have bad luck all the time with Leica gear - but not with Voigtländer Skopar - whereas others - like myself - have never had any problems worth mentioning?

 

Just for the sake of good order: I only use Leica lenses on Leica cameras, and I use the correct glasses to correct my faulty eyesight.

 

My specs are extremely good and the proof of the pudding is that all my other lenses, both leica and CV, focus perfectly on this M9 body. The new lens is out of whack, it's as simple as that! But FWIW this is the second Skopar I have had and it was very sharp across the frame on my M8s and 8.2s but is weak in the corners on the M9. The first one I had was out of whack at delivery and went straight back. This is why I always test!

[Rick]

Isn't it strange how some people have bad luck all the time with Leica gear - but not with Voigtländer Skopar - whereas others - like myself - have never had any problems worth mentioning?

 

Just for the sake of good order: I only use Leica lenses on Leica cameras, and I use the correct glasses to correct my faulty eyesight.

 

michael, I hardly think this implication is fair. Like I stated in my previous post, my friends make comments like this about my luck with Apple. They say, "Rick, you ever wonder why you are the only one always having trouble with your Mac(4)/iPhone(2)/iPod(2)/Airport Express(2) and Extreme(5) and none of us do?" They are half kiddingly implying that I'm somehow and in someway the common denominator of the problems or that I am too picky or have unrealistic expectations. Yet, I have all this Leica gear and haven't had one instance of trouble and I do measure and test it and I am fully capable, like Tim, of discerning.

 

What you say I believe is not fair and when I get my copy I'm going to put it on the GF1 and try Tim's test idea. Thanks for the idea, Tim and for the possible heads up on the new 35. And, I will probably try it on my other lenses just because it will be interesting.

[tashley]

michael, I hardly think this implication is fair. Like I stated in my previous post, my friends make comments like this about my luck with Apple. They say, "Rick, you ever wonder why you are the only one always having trouble with your Mac(4)/iPhone(2)/iPod(2)/Airport Express(2) and Extreme(5) and none of us do?" They are half kiddingly implying that I'm somehow and in someway the common denominator of the problems or that I am too picky or have unrealistic expectations. Yet, I have all this Leica gear and haven't had one instance of trouble and I do measure and test it and I am fully capable, like Tim, of discerning.

 

What you say I believe is not fair and when I get my copy I'm going to put it on the GF1 and try Tim's test idea. Thanks for the idea, Tim and for the possible heads up on the new 35. And, I will probably try it on my other lenses just because it will be interesting.

 

Thanks Rick! I thought there was a bit of an implication there too but when I started this thread I knew from historical experience that there would be some of that! Publish and be damned, I thought. I did. I was. Plus ca change....

[leicashot]

Personally the two best 'performing' 35mm lenses are:

1. Voigtlander 35/1.2 for it's speed, but gorgeous bokeh - only if it had more contrast at wider apertures and wasn't so large.

 

2. Zeiss Biogon 35/2 for it's superior flat field and evenness across the entire frame even from f/2.

 

Also both lenses have superior bokeh and flare resistance. All Leica has going for it is sharpness wide open, size and the Leica name....and at the ridiculous prices these days it's a tough argument in Leica's favour - spoken from a Leica fan, trust me.

 

....having said that, would I buy the new 35/1.4 if it focused accurately and I had the cash? Sure, as its sharp, small and I don't care for bokeh so much, especially on a wide angle lens. Right now just deciding on getting either a Biogon or Nokton. Speed/bokeh VS Low distortion/size and flat field. Tough one.

[Rick]

Thanks Rick! I thought there was a bit of an implication there too but when I started this thread I knew from historical experience that there would be some of that! Publish and be damned, I thought. I did. I was. Plus ca change....

 

Tim, I could have gone either way with my support for you but, since you didn't start your OP with the sentence, "Here is a copy of my open letter to those scumbags at Leica..." I thought I'd cut you some slack.

 

p.s. I also like your idea of using a mount on a 4/3. I'll be playing around with my lenses mounted on my 4/3 and watching the stop down focus shift phenomena on the LCD. I wonder if it is going to be detectable to some degree on a lot of lenses?

 

Also, I sure hope you just got a bad copy. That is what I think. I'd just ask for a new one. And, so for we haven't heard about this from the few reviews that are out there. So, I'm still encouraged that I'll be very happy with mine when it shows up.

[Jeff S]

Erwin's early comment on its bokeh as "a bit unruly" seems consistent with a couple of recent threads here, albeit with limited samplings...SX35FLE, part1

 

Some time ago I switched from a 35 Summicron asph to a Summilux asph, and decided to switch back. I liked the rendering of the Summicron better (no bashing of Summilux; just my preference), while my 50 Summilux asph provides speed if needed and remains exceptional in other ways as well. (On an M8.2, my 28 Summicron asph is another winner in the almost 35mm FOV sweepstakes.) YMMV.

 

The good news is that there are many great options.

 

Jeff

[Rick]

Erwin's early comment on its bokeh as "a bit unruly" seems consistent with a couple of recent threads here, albeit with limited samplings...SX35FLE, part1

 

Some time ago I switched from a 35 Summicron asph to a Summilux asph, and decided to switch back. I liked the rendering of the Summicron better (no bashing of Summilux; just my preference), while my 50 Summilux asph provides speed if needed and remains exceptional in other ways as well. (On an M8.2, my 28 Summicron asph is another winner in the almost 35mm FOV sweepstakes.) YMMV.

 

The good news is that there are many great options.

 

Jeff

 

This is exactly how I see this. The 35 Summicron, although not perfect, is very small and produces wonderful images. And, like you, I loved the 28 Summicron on my M8. My favorite on that camera.

 

I'm hoping the new 35 Summilux is going to be my new 28 Summicron on my new M9 but, faster. If, it fails to deliver, then I'll get the Summicron 35 and use my 50 Summilux for speed and bokeh. If, that makes sense to you (I think it does)?

 

Heck, most of what I used the 28 cron for (on M8) was outside shooting during the daylight. So, I know I'd be happy with the 35 cron as my walking around lens. And, the 50 lux has become my favorite lens on the M9 right now and is actually on my M9 all the time right now. I'd have no problem using it more. But, I sure hope the 35 Summilux is a winner. Come on Leica, 35mm on your range finder should be your bread and butter lens. This should be your forte. Deliver a home run, not a bandaid job, please.

[Fotomiguel]

35mm lux or 35mm cron or 50mm lux + M9+(1250-2500iso+L3)= low light+bokeh - 3500Eu -35mm+50mm =

[Hugues]

Hello

Receive this lens two days ago :

f/1,4

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211844&stc=1&d=1279286255

 

f/3,4

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=211845&stc=1&d=1279286255

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[DFV]

Well... Boy, I really dislike commenting on something as subjective or intangible as "bokeh" , but here it goes...

 

First, there are differences between front and rear bokeh (as you can appreciate from the first picture). The front bokeh is shooth and creamy you could say, while the further away the "bussier" it becomes. I have no way to explain this technically but it happens when you shoot 35mm or wider at distances closer to infinity. For instance, retake the shot with the same settings and frame it so that the top part of the picture is not more than 6 or 7 feet away. I am almost certain that your bokeh would be well within smooth range just like the front part.

 

Wide angle lenses are not really ideal as are telepho lenses for bokeh. The bokeh effect in some ways works similarly to DOF. Over time I have learned to awoid having infinity in my frame when shooting at narrow DOF with a wide angle. I have absolutely no facts to back this up, just many rolls of film on my bellowed M6...

 

In any case, there are always exceptions. The VC 35mm 1,4 has the worst and busiest bokeh at any DOF, aperture or distance. Trully the worst lens I have ever used/owned. Trully horrible, unsharp with al sorts of chromatic aberrations. I was so shocked I thought it was bad. But then I sat back and analyzed size, weight, aperture and price... You can't have it all I guess.

[JLV]

Hi Tim and All,

 

I just got the new 35 lux and took few pictures yesterday with the M9.

I posted it on a separate post here on M9 section but it has been moved to "others" (why I don't know as it is the same kind of post about performances of new 35 lux with M9.

 

Tim, I think that you had bad luck because as far as I checked my new lux, it doesn't seem to have any back or front focus or miscalibration.

For sure, my test were pretty non scientific but at f1,4 it seems to be very accurate.

 

I will try with other apertures this coming week end and will post my thoughts.

 

All the best,

Jean-Luc

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[tashley]

Hi Tim and All,

 

I just got the new 35 lux and took few pictures yesterday with the M9.

I posted it on a separate post here on M9 section but it has been moved to "others" (why I don't know as it is the same kind of post about performances of new 35 lux with M9.

 

Tim, I think that you had bad luck because as far as I checked my new lux, it doesn't seem to have any back or front focus or miscalibration.

For sure, my test were pretty non scientific but at f1,4 it seems to be very accurate.

 

I will try with other apertures this coming week end and will post my thoughts.

 

All the best,

Jean-Luc

 

 

I'm sure that's right and that with a bit of patience I will get a good one... it's just a bit of a bore having to collect/test/return... but I will persevere through another iteration because I do believe that it's a very sharp lens and I like that it's so fast...