B&W Digital printing - what do you do

[Nick De Marco]

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I have Mac - snow leopard - and epson r2400

You may have heard there are various problems with the software here

Despite trying everything - including getting expert epson advice and recalibrating for the nth time I cannot get black and white prints I really like anymore

 

I've gone back to the darkroom and got prints which jump out of the paper, and I am sure for less money (comparing price of chemical and good paper with digital paper and inks). I also find the process of black and white printing in the darkroom far more creative and fun.

 

But I don't just shoot film so I am left unhappy with black and white digital printing. I've tried a couple of commercial services, the colour prints are fine but the black and white lack punch. Plus you lose control, unless you pay lots.

 

Before I completely give up the idea of printing clack and white at home, can anyone who gets fantastic results which equal a wet darkroom offer any advice. Should I dump the r2400 and get something else?

 

Really appreciate some feedback

 

Nick

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[stunsworth]

Doesn't the 2400 driver have the advanced black and white feature? That's what I use with my 3800 and I get results I'm very pleased with.

[Jeff S]

Here are some thoughts from the TOP site regarding Snow Leopard and the 2400...but you may already know this...The Online Photographer: Returning to Hell: Color Management and Snow Leopard

 

You didn't say what software you're using to process your b/w images. I use LR (now version 3), and b/w results are superb. Similar to the TOP discussion, it is imperative to have the color management set appropriately. I use custom paper profiles, and in this instance, it is imperative to turn off the color management and be sure that the printer driver is updated to the latest version.

 

I once forgot to turn off the color management, and my b/w prints were too light and lacked punch. I could address this with LR controls (increased clarity, blacks and contrast), but correcting the setting made everything more seamless.

 

To even better approach darkroom results, you might consider use of Cone inks, which offer 7 shades of black versus 3 from Epson. But, this should only be considered once your results are already looking really good with the Epson inks.

 

Of course, this assumes you have no weak links in the chain, including paper. I get wonderful results using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Photo Rag Baryta.

 

Jeff

 

PS I use the 3800, but your 2400 should still yield good results if everything is properly set. Oh, almost forgot, I don't use Snow Leopard; instead stayed on Mac 10.5.8 to be safe.

[spylaw4]

I sympathise Nick, but like Steve (and with thanks to him for some initial assistance) and some persistence I have finally got my newly acquired pre-owned 3800 to start giving good B&W prints - although I still have to completely sort out printing on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

Things I had to do - update both the printer firmware and the software to the latest versions; use Advanced black & white mode and Eric Chan's profiles for same; then a little bit of trial and error to adjust the printer settings.

Stick with it - it's worth it!

BTW - Calumet are doing a good deal on 3800 ink sets - £374 inc. VAT.

[Nick De Marco]

Thank you for the replies. I think I have done everything suggested above, at least once before, but maybe not all in one go. I'm going to give it another try soon.

 

Nick

[tollie]

Hi Nick,

 

First, your series in LFI is just wonderful.

 

Now if you are using an optimal driver, ink set and paper combination I think you might look at the importance of PP in the preparation of a truly outstanding BW print.

 

All of things you remember doing in the darkroom... and then some are necessary in the preparation of a digital BW print. As you say BW without adjustment is somewhat flat. If you can bet the overall look the way you want it... then going into the print and making many very small adjustments might be what will bring the print forward. Its been my experience that service bureaus are just not up to making these small adjustments. Oh, the great thing about controlling the entire process is that one can make a print... set it asside and then go back to the print and really look at it and from the print make the adjustments that you feel are necessary. I can get 95% of the way their but the final 5% needs a print adjust cycle... working only from the print not the screen.

 

Its a long haul but in my view achieving the outstanding print is not just a technical problem.

[Guest malland]

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...Despite trying everything - including getting expert epson advice and recalibrating for the nth time I cannot get black and white prints I really like anymore...

Nick:

 

Impossible to determine the problem from your statement. Is it colorcast, lack of contrast, gradation issues, inadequately deep blacks, etc? In other words, I can't really tell whether the problem is with your setup or with your file processing.

 

On the printer itself, the 2400 printer should be able to give adequate results with ABW, but the Epson Professional grade printers, like the 3800 and above, are built to tighter tolerances, which means less variability between printers so that the generic color profiles work reasonably the same way between printers and usually obviate the need for making custom profiles for a specific printers. However, if you're printing only B&W, the color profiles should not be an issue because, if you're using Photoshop, you on can set up a "custom dot gain curve" and use a similar trial and error solution with other solution to ensure the proper correspondence between the monitor and the print. The latter issue involves the same judgment factors as looking at slides verses prints, which means taking into account the duller look of reflected light from a print.

 

The foregoing was a long-winded attempt of saying that color calibration of the monitor is not such a big deal for B&W printing. It really isn't a big deal for color printing either, although it needs to be more accurate than for B&W. Once you calibrated your monitor and are using paper profiles correctly, there should be no issues here, even with the 2400. The major disadvantage of the 2400 is that inks in these tiny cartridges are very expensive for printing any serious volume; and it's much more economical to use one of the professional grade printers with their much larger ink cartridges.

 

If the problem isn't with the setup, then it's the processing; and here I don't know what to say except that it, in my experience, it requires just as big an effort to learn how to do basic post-processing of digital files as it is to learning basic darkroom printing. But to make fine prints digitally should be easier for you than for people without darkroom experience because you know how a fine print should look. The only issue is to gain experience in using Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture or whatever software you're using.

 

I suspect, though, that your problem is the setup since you mention calibrating for the umpteenth time. All this is easier if you use ImagePrint, a rather expensive RIP solution, that I use. It gives a lot more flexibility and control than the Epson printing software at the price of spending more money.

 

Bottom line: there is no reason that you should not be able to make satisfying digital prints. Japanese photographer Moriyama Daido, is an accomplished darkroom printer, but his exhibition of sixty 100 x 150 cm (40 x 60 inch) prints that I saw at the Sydney Biennale a few years ago was printed on an Epson wide-format printer, the current version of which actually has a greater Dmax than any darkroom print, which is important for Moriyama's high-contrast work. Also, large, that is, above 24x36 inch prints from these Epson printers are usually better than darkroom prints because of light dispersion from enlargers when making such huge prints.

 

Not sure any of this is of help, except as pep talk!

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Scratching the Surface©

[johnwolf]

Nick, maybe folks can be of more help if you are more specific about the issues with your prints? What is disappointing you about them?

 

I can't speak to Snow Leopard, but I print to a 2400 from PS (Windows) and LR, with and without ABW, and the results are excellent. I really don't think you will gain much by changing printers. The 2400 should be plenty adequate.

 

John