Will Leica ever embrace the digital age?

[jonoslack]

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This is a little ignorant of you to say, and it isn't reflected in the sentiment and writing of your comments. You'll never know until you're in the shoes and facing the pressure and demands of a client job, where your family's future depends on your ability, and your camera's reliability. No one is attacking you for being an amateur. If anything, I'm envious of you for being one.

 

Have a good one.

 

HI Kristian

There are so many jobs where there is more pressure: Surgeon / Doctor (make a mistake and someone dies) Lawyer (make a mistake and someone's bankrupt). I actually face the demands of a client job every day, where the pressures are nothing like as great as a Doctor . . . . but just as great as a photographer (and I've done enough Weddings and client work on a professional level to understand those pressures as well). As for amateurs . . you save up for years to go on that photographic safari - your camera breaks, no you don't say 'aw shucks' .

 

Whatever the pros and cons of the pro/amateur argument, the assumption that the work of a pro photographer is more pressured than other jobs is pretty fatuous (IMHO of course)

[vanhulsenbeek]

............. the assumption that the work of a pro photographer is more pressured than other jobs is pretty fatuous (IMHO of course)

 

Quite. But IMHO the occurence of such views as well as the ease with which they are pronounced are to be blamed on the fact that, in this overglobalized and infobese age, were are all living in our little cocoons, were we ourselves are tantamount and - rare and dear exceptions allowing - where we are oblivious of other people's problems and predicaments.

 

(Boy, do I sound pompous and typically pensionado here )

[adli]

 

As for 'support for pros' it seems to me that over the last few years turnaround times at Solms have gone from something like 6 weeks to something more like 6 days.

 

That's not really the case, but they have a "fast lane" for M9s. At least that was what I was told by customer service when I called them. It's alo confirmed by my own experience. 10 days turnaround for my M9 compared to 8 weeks for my old lens.

[zlatkob]

... the assumption that the work of a pro photographer is more pressured than other jobs is pretty fatuous (IMHO of course)

 

Sadly, this thread has become a lesson on how to miss the point. A very simple point gets twisted into something that it wasn't. A "straw man" — a sham argument — is set up, and then everyone attacks the straw man. The point was never about having "more pressured jobs than other jobs". That just wasn't it.

 

The key points I made in post #32 relate to the original post in which the OP worries that, based on his experience with certain products, Leica may not be considering the needs of pro photographers.

 

With Canon and Nikon, there are pretty distinct product levels and the one for pros is easy to recognize. Within the Leica M system, there is but one product level. Based on price and reputation, many certainly decide that what Leica offers is pro level, and I'm not arguing that it isn't. Again, I've had no problems with the M9. But the OP had a bad experience with the DMR, R9 and M9 and wondered whether perhaps Leica wasn't considering the needs of pros.

 

I've tried to make the point that the intended user & usage affects a manufacturer's decisions, from the design phase to the service phase. If the intended usage is light-duty, then the product will be built for light duty. If the intended usage is heavy-duty, then it will be built for that. So, the intended user/usage has real consequences for the product. That should be common sense.

 

But the counter argument is: "A professional photographer has no greater demands or expectations than an amateur." Well, just saying so doesn't make it true.

 

Even if I buy the exact same bicycle as a professional cyclist, I will never, ever use it or stress it as much as professional cyclist, and I'll never have as much at stake when I ride it. Not even close. Even if I buy the exact same cookware as a professional chef, I will never use it as much as a professional chef. Even if I buy the same automobile used in 24-hour endurance race, I'm just not going to drive it hard for 24-hours straight — my typical drive is less than one hour.

 

The OP's comment about "eye candy" was somehow twisted into a criticism of all amateurs. Obviously many people, amateur and pro, use their Leicas seriously and heavily and well. But it's undeniable that some people buy Leicas and don't use them very much. Here are some cameras currently in the Buy & Sell section:

 

M6 Titanium Kit - no film ever loaded in camera - "This outfit belonged to an avid LEICA collector who is maniacal about the condition of his equipment."

MP a la carte - approx. 20-30 films have been exposed (720-1,080 actuations)

M8 - less than 3,500 actuations

M8.2 - purchased May 2009, only 4,800 actuations

M8.2 - 14 months old, 5,000 actuations

 

Well from zero to 5,000 actuations is all "low mileage" — and the first camera arguably was a perfect example of eye candy. It's not unusual for some pros to make 1,000 or more exposures during a one-day assignment. In the course of a year, I probably make 100,000 exposures on my Canon cameras combined. Canon advertises their top models as "durability-tested" to 300,000 actuations; consumer models are probably rated at 50,000. Whether a camera has to go in for a major repair like a new shutter every 10 months or every 60 months is not a trivial difference.

 

Wondering about the intended user for a camera is just a rational thing to do. Is the intended user is going to make 400 exposures/year or 400 exposures/month or 400 exposure/day? That's not a criticism of people who make light use of a camera. It's a factual question, and one that affects some important decisions on the manufacturer's end.

[diogenis]

We said that if you wanna go Pro and earn cash, you need to also secure the fact that EVERY machine is prone to breaking no matter how good is made. This way when you are out working, you won't lose time which translates to cash.

 

There is no real need to beat that dead horse even more, the guy needs another body, plus pro service addition to Leica, which is more dealing with some paper work and that's it. Then when all that fails you got your last chance of a rep to support you with whatever camera he has available

[Gover]

Dear Forum members,

 

I want to sincerely apologise if I have offended amateurs and collectors. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

 

To clear up a few comments to date. I have been registered as a professional with Leica since 1968. It appears from my recent conversations that this information may have been lost with a computer glitch.

 

However, I would like to see the same level of service for all users when equipment has problems in the first few shots or first month following purchase.

 

I ordered two bodies to prevent this disaster scenario and almost by a miracle I was phoned today to say that the second is now available. It will arrive in time for my assignment. The dealer concerned assures me that the pro liaison team at Leica have not been involved in this matter.

 

I was told by Solms that the card reading problem has been recognised and that the latest software upgrade available today or early next week solves this problem.

 

For those who added to the thread with useful information about reliability I thank you. I understand why some members sniped. I thank them for pointing out the error of my ways.

 

Gover

[John Thawley]

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Disregarding the original poster's clumsy and somewhat demeaning observations of many Leica users, the point remains, Leica isn't doing much to become a viable tool for the "working" photographer.

 

Trust me, I lust after Leica... I would love to bleed Leica. But I can't make my living with Leica.

 

I'm a sports shooter... motorsports specifically. Today I received a newsletter from Leica. It urged me to get "CLOSE TO THE ACTION" via a gallery of World Cup Soccer coverage of the national team. The photographer is Michael Agel.

 

LFI Gallery - Die Deutsche Nationalmannschaft von Michael Agel

 

With no disrespect to Michael Agel, while the gallery was a very nice collection of pictures, they couldn't have been further from "THE ACTION" implied by the newsletter title.

 

And there in lies the rub. Leica is doing nothing to accommodate the photographic needs of the "working" photographer to get ACTION.

 

So while I still drag my little Digilux 2 to sporting events, I'm relegated to atmosphere and background shooting.

 

 

The "action" is left to my working gear... Canon.

 

My post is not a knock... just an observation. And, I guess in some ways, supportive of the original post.

 

I would love to shoot Leica. They don't make a product for me. It's really too bad that they ignore such an important market.

 

Certainly, I make no distinction between one type of Leica user or another. Given that the best camera you have is the one you have with you at the time, any photographer is entitled to carry the best equipment he can afford or the equipment of his choosing. Go for it. While I operate on a philosophy of "what stands between me and greatness lies between my ears, not in my camera bag," I still urge people to buy the best they can afford. That said though, I also encourage them to learn how to use it and get the most of it.

 

But, man I'd love to shoot with Leica.

[Tom_W]

Re: fast lane, pro or not.

 

H'mm, when I pay the same as the next man for a tool I want parity in service on a first come first served basis, not to be treated as a second class citizen because I happen to be in a profession other than photography.

 

If I was a professional photographer I would be professional enough to provide my own redundancy out of respect to my client.

 

T

[250swb]

Re: fast lane, pro or not.

 

H'mm, when I pay the same as the next man for a tool I want parity in service on a first come first served basis, not to be treated as a second class citizen because I happen to be in a profession other than photography.

 

If I was a professional photographer I would be professional enough to provide my own redundancy out of respect to my client.

 

T

 

Well said.

 

I would love to shoot Leica. They don't make a product for me. It's really too bad that they ignore such an important market.

 

John, just like the OP, its 'all about me' isn't it? Why are you such an important market when the Leica M wasn't invented to do sports photography? If Leica don't make something that suits you, take the hint. I would buy a Canon 5dMkII and not whine about it on the M9 forum.

 

Steve

[Guest stnami]

Adding a m 9 or a film m coupled with a 35mm lens will not overburden any kit and only serve to enhance their photographic abilities as well as presenting another level of experience . Anyone worth their salt knows that the X1 is only eye candy and the m9/35mm combo is the only leica option other than film.

 

There are more people that make a living out of photography using a leica in combo than what is stated on this thread. The reasoning is quite simple the leica lens > rangefinder camera > film combination still offers some of the best results going around. Most don't scan nor print and it is all integrated in work flow and financial structures.

 

I betcha there are a lot of pros out there that are grateful that the well healed amateur keeps leica afloat.

 

Mistrust, paranoia, coupled with some silly anti terrorist laws have led to the rise of the longish lens/ AF /fast DSLR combination as the equipment of choice by photojournalists at the expense of using leica gear. Quite simple if it were possible for leica gear to be the system of choice once again the whole service side would be different

[John Thawley]

 

 

 

John, just like the OP, its 'all about me' isn't it? Why are you such an important market when the Leica M wasn't invented to do sports photography? If Leica don't make something that suits you, take the hint. I would buy a Canon 5dMkII and not whine about it on the M9 forum.

 

Steve

 

Well, you sure turned that around.

 

FYI... I don't need to take a hint. I own several Leicas and about $30K in Canon gear that I drag through airports ..... including the 5D MK11.

 

And, yes... pro sports photography is a huge and important market. I'm not sure how you interpret that as "all about me." It's simply a fact.

 

I don't see how "wishing" Leica made equipment suitable for sports shooting is "whining." I happen to like Leica. I like the build quality. I like the design approach and I like the feel. I happen to wish Leica made gear I could use in my work. I don't recall condemning them because they don't.

 

Lastly, I don't appreciate you telling me what or where I should post.

[pico]

[...]

I have an important 6 week photo assignment across Europe. Plenty of M lenses and no body and no spare body as yet. Leica dealer - no loan camera, Leica Milton Keynes - no loan camera. Leica Germany offer to repair - no loan camera but repair too late for assignment

 

Tell us about your assignment. It could be interesting.

 

Anyone who has a critical assignment should have backup equipment. After all, he has a responsibility to the client. There really is no excuse. If I were an editor (and I was), I'd never hire a person who puts the assignment at such risk.