Joining the M8 club!

[Tonysaurus]

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So with the help of some of you answering a lot of my questions, I managed to get a black Leica M8.2! Not the colour that I wanted, but I couldn't wait any longer. I'm a university student and I've spent half a year's savings on this! I could've bought a nice car but that's just not the type of guy I am. I'm sure in a couple of decades when I look back on the gorgeous images I'm getting out of it, I will not regret this decision at all.

Anyways... so I've had it for a couple of days now and I absolutely adore it! My only gripe with it is the ISO is weaker than I thought. It really is a camera you buy with your heart, rather than your head. The experience using it is borderline romantic haha. I also found, which I haven't read anywhere yet, the shear mass of the camera makes it easy to steady to easily get exposures at 1/12 s (that + the lack of flapping mirror of course!)

 

Obligatory "me and my Leica" photo that every single Leica owner has

 

 

 

I also noticed that I used discreet mode a lot and that it's not a gimmick.

One of the first shots I took with my M8.2. It really is unobtrusive and I become 'invisible'.

 

 

 

 

Just a quick couple of questions:

1. When I focus, the framelines move diagonally. Is this a feature of all RFs?

2. There's a speckle of dust on the LCD screen on the top. Is there any way to get rid of this?

 

Thanks again everyone!

[wstotler]

Welcome. Hope you enjoy your M8 for some time to come.

 

In answer to your first question, the diagonal movement of the framelines is parallax correction. I'm pretty sure, BTW, that all the more recent Leicas have it. Not sure about the Bessas, Ikon, or Contaxes.

 

Second question, regarding the dust speck? Not much you can do on your own without risking damage to the LCD during the fix. It's a "live with it" thing, IMO.

 

Regarding in-camera ISO performance, I agree in general. I've said that I want a 1250 or 2500 that's as clean as today's 320. But, based on the M8's existing capabilities, I rarely shoot at ISOs greater than 320, even in poor light, to keep noise down. I can say that I've been pleased with Aperture's ability to bump exposure two stops credibly, though. Coupled with the NIK filter pack set (Vivenza, Color Effects, etc.), you can push it two more, for a total of four stops above 320, and keep it very clean for color shots. If you're willing to do a B&W conversion for sure, or are willing to take the risk with contrasty noise/color shifts, you can push it two more stops in post, for a total of six stops. You can go more, of course, if your target is Flickr instead of a 5x7 or 8x12 print. But, for 16x20 or 20x30 prints, pushing more than a stop or two in post is indeed pushing it, IMO.

 

IMO, the M8's "invisibility" (also hashed over as "stealth" in many threads) is a stretch. I think the consensus is that people do see the shooter, but with an "old, outdated" film camera and thereby tune out the shooter, classifying him or her as "no threat." It's invisibility via "so what?", not invisibility as in "I don't see the shooter." Sure, you're not a face-blocked DSLR cyborg, but the M8 isn't a cloak of invisibility. (However, I do have it from a credible inside source that the next M8 firmware update will address this issue.)

 

Good luck and cheers,

Will

 

P.S. You may be the youngest M8 owner on the forum.

 

P.P.S. You gonna make that self-shot image your avatar, or what?

[Tonysaurus]

Thanks so much Will! All your forum posts have been a great source of help for me.

 

Oh, I'm glad to hear that the diagonal movement is a phenomenon that's supposed to happen.

 

Great tips on pushing the low light capabilities. I use Aperture too and I've been happy with it. I've read reports that Lightroom 3 has superior noise reduction techniques so I'm really torn on whether I should make the jump. I really like the Aperture 3 UI.

I've heard a lot about NIK filters software but is it a Photoshop only plugin? I would really prefer to do stay in the cosy Aperture 3 world.

 

IMO, the M8's "invisibility" (also hashed over as "stealth" in many threads) is a stretch. I think the consensus is that people do see the shooter, but with an "old, outdated" film camera and thereby tune out the shooter, classifying him or her as "no threat." It's invisibility via "so what?", not invisibility as in "I don't see the shooter." Sure, you're not a face-blocked DSLR cyborg, but the M8 isn't a cloak of invisibility. (However, I do have it from a credible inside source that the next M8 firmware update will address this issue.)

Yes, you nailed it! That's more what I was trying to say. That's why I don't really agree with the whole black being more stealthy than silver debate. And yes, there is quite some excitement for the new firmware

 

P.S. You may be the youngest M8 owner on the forum.

Awesome! haha, I'm sure there are a lot of other young M8 owners out there considering the prices are in reach. My uncle always tells me about how wished he got into photography at a young age which inspired me

 

P.P.S. You gonna make that self-shot image your avatar, or what?

Shall do sir!

[01af]

That's why I don't really agree with the whole black being more stealthy than silver debate.

In black, the camera looks more monolithic and thus, appears smaller. On the other hand, in chrome (or grey in case of the M9) it looks even older and thus, appears more old-fashioned and harmless, like an apparatus you inherited from your grandpa.

 

By the way, when you want people to believe it was an old-style point-and-shoot camera you're using then switch off the display—or your chimping after each shot may give away a hint that it must be a digital camera after all.

[stunsworth]

My only gripe with it is the ISO is weaker than I thought

 

Try the newly released Lightroom 3 - there's a free 30 day trial available on Adobe's web site. They have greatly improved the noise reduction function, and you may be left with the conclusion that much of the superiority of other brand's at high ISOs is due to their in camera noise reduction.

[wstotler]

Great tips on pushing the low light capabilities. I use Aperture too and I've been happy with it. I've read reports that Lightroom 3 has superior noise reduction techniques so I'm really torn on whether I should make the jump. I really like the Aperture 3 UI. I've heard a lot about NIK filters software but is it a Photoshop only plugin? I would really prefer to do stay in the cosy Aperture 3 world.

 

I've stuck with Aperture because the workflow is excellent and the tools are good, IMO. I don't use much noise reduction as I don't like what it does to the files. I prefer to shoot at 320 with f/2 or f/1.2 at 1/30 or 1/60 and then bump in post as much as I can without tearing up the file.

 

The NIK software pack is a plugin for Aperture 2--I bet they have a version for Aperture 3, also. To use the tools, it's a right-click on a photo and then the NIK module you want pops open right there in Aperture with the file. NIK has a whole suite of tools, starting with noise management, then pre-sharpening, then light control, then color effects (or B&W conversion), then final output sharpening. Not "cheap," but the light and color tools are interesting to use and stacking presets with a bit of tweaking gets interesting looks without too much effort. Aperture does just fine, IMO, when working with the M8 raw files, all on its own. NIK just makes it easy to get more color, more light, more smoothness, etc., into the Aperture files without a push to Photoshop and a lot of fussing around.

 

Awesome! haha, I'm sure there are a lot of other young M8 owners out there considering the prices are in reach.

 

Uh, I don't think so! There are not a bunch of young M8 owners lurking out there. "Young" for the Leica crowd is mid-30-something, too. In terms of pricing, most people, like 99.9% of them (and most people doing photography, too), consider kit more than like $600 or $800 to be "expensive." Leica stuff is just considered costly and "unreachable" for mostly everyone from a value perspective. Although they'll buy three $800 systems over several years instead of investing in one tool and really working with that.

 

Cheers!

Will

[tecumseh]

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The ISO is poor but keep in mind that crisp ISOs are really for the myriad slow zoom lenses for dslrs. I go up to 640iso and although not ideal you can get some nice shots in near complete darkness! Anything above 640 is too noisy for me. The following where taken backstage at a fashion show with a Nokton f/1.2. Also, for really low light ignore the auto setting, I usually stop the Nokton down to f/1.4 and shoot at 1/30 or 1/15 depending how stationary the subject is.

 

My two biggest problems; the way the sensor attracts dust and the tortuously slow buffer.

 

In terms of young Leicaphiles they should start, like I did with the CL and slowly build their way up. Leicas have that huge cache that the majority of your peers don't get viewing them as anitquated, unfeasibly small grandad's camera. This is something Leica have battled against since the 70s. In this month's LFI magazine Leopold Godowsky (the co-inventor of Kodachrome) gave away his M5 because "on this camera, I have to make four settings before I can take a picture: film speed, shutter speed, aperture and distance... when a charming scene occurs, I want to be able to grab my camera quickly and capture that scene. You collect these cameras..."

 

My friends are always a little bemused when they find a menu on an LCD screen without hundreds of different settings and are amazed when I argue that it is, in fact far too cluttered for my liking...

 

Enjoy!

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[wda]

Tonysaurus, welcome to the LEica Forum!

 

Excellent first shots. LR3 is worth exploring. I have also found Noise Ninja an excellent plug-in for noise reduction.

 

I wish you many years of happiness and success with Leica cameras.

[efix]

Tony, that's great for you, congratulations! I found myself in a similar situation, having not much income but wanting an M8 badly - so I plundered my savings and got it, and now I'm happy like a child :-) Your black M8.2 looks gorgeous, and those shots are great!

 

As concerns the ISO, it isn't actually as bad as it seems when processing from the DNGs. Up to 1250, the M8's output is quite decent for color, and 2500 give a nice film look in b&w. I do my processing in Lightroom 3, and I can get very decent results with its new noise reduction routines. I wouldn't rely on the in-camera processing though - except for b&w, which look great straight from camera! (In fact, my attempts at b&w conversion are often inferior to the M8's JPEGs!)

 

P.S.: Do you have a blog or something, where we can admire your pictures?

[Tonysaurus]

Wow, thanks guys, I'm blown away by all the responses!

 

By the way, when you want people to believe it was an old-style point-and-shoot camera you're using then switch off the display—or your chimping after each shot may give away a hint that it must be a digital camera after all.

 

I never thought about that. Sometimes I get so carried away taking photos that I don't think about how those being photographed see me. I'm guilty of chimping myself, I'll have to work on it!

 

Try the newly released Lightroom 3 - there's a free 30 day trial available on Adobe's web site. They have greatly improved the noise reduction function, and you may be left with the conclusion that much of the superiority of other brand's at high ISOs is due to their in camera noise reduction.

 

Excellent first shots. LR3 is worth exploring. I have also found Noise Ninja an excellent plug-in for noise reduction.

 

Awesome, you've both convinced me to try out LR3! I'll have to give it a go over the 30 day trial.

[Tonysaurus]

The NIK software pack is a plugin for Aperture 2--I bet they have a version for Aperture 3, also.

 

 

Uh, I don't think so! There are not a bunch of young M8 owners lurking out there. "Young" for the Leica crowd is mid-30-something, too. In terms of pricing, most people, like 99.9% of them (and most people doing photography, too), consider kit more than like $600 or $800 to be "expensive." Leica stuff is just considered costly and "unreachable" for mostly everyone from a value perspective. Although they'll buy three $800 systems over several years instead of investing in one tool and really working with that.

 

Awesome, I'll have to have a closer look at NIK.

 

I agree, I had a hard long think about it and the M8.2 is a long term investment for me. The sooner I got it, the more worthwhile the investment. However I don't know how much cheaper it will be once I get Leica lens lust . But nevertheless, those lenses will outlive me!

[Tonysaurus]

The ISO is poor but keep in mind that crisp ISOs are really for the myriad slow zoom lenses for dslrs. I go up to 640iso and although not ideal you can get some nice shots in near complete darkness! Anything above 640 is too noisy for me. The following where taken backstage at a fashion show with a Nokton f/1.2. Also, for really low light ignore the auto setting, I usually stop the Nokton down to f/1.4 and shoot at 1/30 or 1/15 depending how stationary the subject is.

 

Yes, I agree that fast glass is the way to go. I got the Nokton 1.1 because I was able to get it secondhand for a really good price, so I've been able to get shots with f 1.1 ISO 640 in very dark situations

 

My two biggest problems; the way the sensor attracts dust and the tortuously slow buffer.

 

Yes! Do you find putting it into 'sensor-clean' mode and pumping with an air-blower is enough? Or do you have to often do wet cleans?

 

In terms of young Leicaphiles they should start, like I did with the CL and slowly build their way up.

Yes, I'm going to slowly build my way up. My current main lens that sits on the M8.2 is a Voigtlander 28 mm 1.9 Ultron. Absolute gem of a lens!

 

Leicas have that huge cache that the majority of your peers don't get viewing them as anitquated, unfeasibly small grandad's camera

I know! My friends think I'm absolutely insane spending so much money on what looks like an antique. A lot of them who know nothing about photography said, "that doesn't look cool at all, why didn't you get one of those cool (DSLR) cameras?" But personally, that's an advantage for me. I don't want others to think/know I have a whizbang camera that they can't act natural around.

[Tonysaurus]

Tony, that's great for you, congratulations! I found myself in a similar situation, having not much income but wanting an M8 badly - so I plundered my savings and got it, and now I'm happy like a child :-) Your black M8.2 looks gorgeous, and those shots are great!

 

Omg, it's so worth it isn't it? I'm broke but so happy!

 

P.S.: Do you have a blog or something, where we can admire your pictures?

 

I'm really flattered! I'm just on Flickr: Flickr: monsieurnguyen's Photostream

 

Thanks!

 

And if you guys don't mind, I got a couple of shots that I loved out of the Nokton 1.1!

 

 

[01af]

I'm guilty of chimping myself, I'll have to work on it!

Don't feel guilty! There is nothing inherently wrong with chimping—which by the way is an acronym which stands for CHeck IMage Preview. Being able to check the framing or the exposure right after the shot is one of the great advantages of digital over film. However there are times when chimping is inappropriate, for example while fast action is unfolding ... or when you don't want people realize that you are shooting digital.

 

 

Do you find putting it into 'sensor-clean' mode and pumping with an air-blower is enough? Or do you have to often do wet cleans?

I am using interchangeable-lens digital cameras for five years now and I never needed more sensor cleaning than blowing just a few puffs of air on the sensor using a bubble-blower (never blow on the sensor with your mouth; you WILL regret it!). I never needed a wet clean so far.

 

However the Leica M8 and M8.2 are notorious for spilling fine drops of oil from the shutter blades onto the sensor. These cannot be blown away; they require a wet clean. Fortunately, the shutter will stop spattering oil after some weeks or months of use, so when you got your camera used then most likely it won't do that anymore.

 

 

My friends think I'm absolutely insane spending so much money on what looks like an antique.

Yeah, it's not cheap. But consider the difference between the prices for a car for every-day driving and a car for bragging, then compare to what you spent on your camera and lenses. This way it doesn't look soo bad, does it? And your camera and lenses will keep going after the car has turned into a solid piece of scrap metal.

[jaapv]

And your camera and lenses will keep going after the car has turned into a solid piece of scrap metal.

Don't let my TR4 hear that!

[steinzeug]

Nice shots! and welcome to Leica World. I am also pretty new to Leica, having been a nikon user for many years. Your thread reminded me of the joy of first using the M8.

 

My first experience with Leica was a Summicron 50 stuck onto an Epson RD1 Rangefinder, I was blown away by the "natural" quality coming from the glass and I was totaly drawn into the "rangefinder experience". However after a while I found the platform too quirky and sold the set up. It took only about 4-5 months and I started to regret it, and after a re-shuffeling of some of my hardware I went out a bought a secondhand M8 and a new Summarit 50mm. I immediately felt at home again. Sure, a good DSLR will take care of a wider range of working situations, but the Rangefinder is such a joy to use, as long as you can live with the cost(s). But like someone mentioned earlier, rather one M8 than three middle of the road DSLR´s.

[steinzeug]

One of my first casual shots

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[Tonysaurus]

Thanks for the responses. I love hearing about everyone's initial experiences with their M8s. Hoping the M8.2 honeymoon period that I'm in at the moment lasts forever