Sony NEX 5 vs Leica x1

[jsrockit]

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I for one hope Sony keeps going with this product and makes a proper prosumer version.

[nigelb]

NEX versus X1: do you prefer a tripple tourbo charged car of Asian make with tons of (nominal) horsepowers over a Porsche Boxster? Or five big Macs incl fries over a connaisseurs meal?

My choice is clear:)

 

Well I'll take the Nissan GTR over the Boxster anyday, but am with you on the NEX, and also the big macs. I can't get excited over the NEX at any level.

[JanCderidder]

I'll have the "culinary meal" and the Boxter anyday....

[Guest douglasf13]

The whole CCD vs CMOS debate has being going on ad infinitum, but one thing for certain: Most high end imaging systems utilize CCD over CMOS for tonal range and other advantages. What CMOS has over CCD is low noise. CCD also costs more right now. As far as I know, Sony is working on some new generation super CCD sensor, perhaps also recognizing its advantages for use in its top end future product lines.

 

Right now, it is clear that CCD produce finer images than CMOS, and all medium format backs use it.

 

Sony isn't making a Super CCD for DSLR cameras. You're referencing a debunked rumor that shows a camera sensor that belongs to security cameras. In fact, there is another rumor that Leica may use a Sony CMOS in the next M, but I'm not putting any stock in it.

 

Read the following post. It is from someone who actually works in the industry and has ties to Hasselblad. Read the "and BTW" part: a850 vs a900, 1 stop better noise performance? - FM Forums

 

Also, read this: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/893332/8#8504636

 

p.s. Don't think this means that I don't think the M9 is a great camera. I think rangefinders are a great manner of working, and I've considered buying one many times.

[jankap]

Well I'll take the Nissan GTR over the Boxster anyday, but am with you on the NEX, and also the big macs.

Bon appetit. Hope, you survive.

Jan

[JanCderidder]

Maybe you should check on who owns Leica Camera. Also, Blanc Pain produced fine quality watches even when they weren't owned by Swatch. Maybe better some might argue.

 

Cameras cannot be compared to watches (watches are static) but with the money you spare not buying an X1 perhaps you can have a nice rectangular brick wall fitted in your garden.

 

Photography comes down to a lot more than perpendicular images on walls etc. etc.

 

I don't understand why you carry on like this, the sony with any lens fitted isn't as good as the X1, and I'm not a pixel peeper I just look at what I see and judge

[JanCderidder]

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John, don't get me wrong here, it's a nice camera, it will serve many folks wishes and needs, but it's far from X1 IQ quality whatever lens you fit on there.

 

Maybe you should get one and try for yourself

[jankap]

Also, read this: Sony NEX as a Leica M8 alternative - FM Forums

In the last mails of this thread the handling of fluorescent light is discussed. An interesting site in this respect is

Learn About Light: Spectral Power Distribution Curves: GE Commercial Lighting Products

Jan

[Guest douglasf13]

John, don't get me wrong here, it's a nice camera, it will serve many folks wishes and needs, but it's far from X1 IQ quality whatever lens you fit on there.

 

Maybe you should get one and try for yourself

 

Why would you say something like this? Have you rigorously tested NEX raws? At the sensor level, the NEX is, if anything, slightly improved over the X1's Sony sensor. So you're basically saying that the lens on the X1 is better than any available Leica M lens. Huh?

[h00ligan]

That is true, based on all research I have seen. After much more research and consideration, as well as many samples posted with good glass, I've actually been pondering getting one and a CV or similar lens to try my hand at manual focusing. Not necessarily to replace the x1 - but just as something to try. The sensor, by all accounts, is an updated version of the sensor in the x1 - and you can fit Leica glass to it. although I think the adaptors out now may be a bit expensive (compared to mft adaptors). I think it would be really interesting to see side by side shots for nex/elmarit vs x1

 

Also by accounts the very high resolution screen which tilts is fine in the sunlight.

 

A question I have is: when using mf glass, is aperture set on the lens? How does the sony handle manual focusing, enlarged box?

 

Also John, any luck finding that high iso sample you mentioned?

 

There are a fair amount of threads on dpreview detailing and providing images for legacy lenses, some with really nice results. It certainly seems that if one could adjust from rangefinder to lcd focus it would be a very inexpensive alternative or backup to the m8.2 - with better high iso.

 

All that said, it still seems to me there is a very large variance in quality of the kit lenses, although it could be user variance. There are some REALLY bad images coming out of the nex, and then some pretty nice ones (though I don't believe that it is sharper at all than the x1 despite the charts posted in here - something doesn't add up).

[Guest douglasf13]

There are a number different M adapters varying in price from Jnfinance to Metabones all the way to the expensive Voigtlander.

 

Yes, you change aperture on the lens, and there is a button that immediately zooms to magnified view for manual focusing.

 

Overall, I agree that NEX and X1 can coexist in someone's arsenal peacefully. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm actually fine with a fixed lens like the X1. It just so happens I prefer a 50mm equivalent (and f2 or faster.)

[jankap]

I think it would be really interesting to see side by side shots for nex/elmarit vs x1

A comparison of nex/M-elmarit versus x1 is also misleading, because elmarit is not elmarit. Sorry, I think you should take the cameras as they are. The nex has more features.

You could take the MFT-curves, but nowadays inside the cameras the picture is handled (manipulated/optimized) by a processor.

Jan

[JanCderidder]

Why would you say something like this? Have you rigorously tested NEX raws? At the sensor level, the NEX is, if anything, slightly improved over the X1's Sony sensor. So you're basically saying that the lens on the X1 is better than any available Leica M lens. Huh?

 

I don't rigorously test anything, I just take images of subjects I want to take images of and then perhaps compare them.... and like I mentioned before the Nex is by far inferior to the X1

[Danielsan]

The Nex5 with an expensive high quality will probably as good as the X1, but its a totally different system, MF vs AF,and changable lenses vs fixed lens. I like the fact that the X2 has only one fixed lens cause the lens can be build around the sensor, so there is no compromise. And the NEX5 is only for ppl who like MF, many dont like this. Lets wait for some pictures.

 

what about the aa-Filter? ive played around with the X1 and i saw alot of those moire effects on the LCD Screen, i never seen this before. Maybe the X1 dont have this filter at all?

[Dan States]

There is a lot of testosterone induced commentary here. I own both cameras and can tell you that until a proper raw converter accepts nex files we dont know squat about its potential. With a decent lens the files look great even without LR3. The screen kicks ass in all light levels and is a great night shooter. The jurys still out.

[JanCderidder]

A thing that does it for me is that a professional group like Getty images approves the X1, without going into deep brick wall simulations and here and through discussions about IQ, sensor IQ, Lens IQ etc. these people are pro's and can respect an IQ of any camera and lens combination.

As a complete no-knowledge camera guy this does mean something, not that I don't see it myself, but reading all these "down" posts an X1..... they are just done by amateurs wishing that they would have saved up for an X1 instead of buying a crappy M4/3 or Nex with a strawberry jam glass lens :-)

[peterv]

There is a lot of testosterone induced commentary here.

 

:D:D

 

The fact that proper raw support is still not forthcoming soon for the nex 5 could be an indication that the camera is mostly for P&S up-graders who probably will use jpegs anyway.

 

NEX RAW is supported by Raw Photo Processor, Aperture, Bibble, Hasselblad Phocus, RAW Developer, Scarab Darkroom, Sony's IDC and the next version of ACR should include the NEX-5/3. How's that for an indication.

[JanCderidder]

... to be reasonable ... what is it about the X1 you don't like?

 

I know all the common arguments ... slow AF blablablabla etc. like I said I know that already, is it the fact that you can't afford one? ... the fact that deep in your heart you know that the X1 produces better images than X, Y or Z ... just accept that the X1 is a great camera and doesn't need blending and matching of a multitude of MF lenses, it has a quality of it's own !!!!!

[h00ligan]

A comparison of nex/M-elmarit versus x1 is also misleading' date=' because elmarit is not elmarit.

Jan[/quote']

 

Why is it different than putting it on an m8/.2? You lost me. The x1 sensor is (by all accounts made by Sony, and a model prior to the nex sensor).

 

As a complete no-knowledge camera guy this does mean something, not that I don't see it myself, but reading all these "down" posts an X1..... they are just done by amateurs wishing that they would have saved up for an X1 instead of buying a crappy M4/3 or Nex with a strawberry jam glass lens :-)

 

I'm confused, are you saying you are new to photography? Plenty of heated discussion from we who own the x1 as well, not just candy coating. I can say (as I mentioned before) I do own one. There are plusses and minuses.....but some of what you are saying is just generalization and some just doesn't make sense, to me at least.

 

If you go back you will see I was SHREDDING the nex in this thread..the more I research, the more I realize the lens is what I was shredding. I also missed earlier, do you have an x1 at present?

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[Guest douglasf13]

A thing that does it for me is that a professional group like Getty images approves the X1, without going into deep brick wall simulations and here and through discussions about IQ, sensor IQ, Lens IQ etc. these people are pro's and can respect an IQ of any camera and lens combination.

As a complete no-knowledge camera guy this does mean something, not that I don't see it myself, but reading all these "down" posts an X1..... they are just done by amateurs wishing that they would have saved up for an X1 instead of buying a crappy M4/3 or Nex with a strawberry jam glass lens :-)

 

Getty images is zero indication of camera IQ. Getty is often criticized by photographers, because they will take two cameras with identical sensors and output, yet only include one on their acceptable list simply because of price.

 

If you read my posts, they aren't down X1, but, rather "up" NEX. You seem to be missing that point. As for the amateur comment, don't push it. I've owned everything from MFDB to Leica R to Sony A900, and I know a thing or two about this stuff. I get the feeling you're just blindly defending your purchase.

 

Saying that you don't test and just use whatever works says a lot about your workflow and camera IQ knowledge.