bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #101 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) But the smiley below seems to be more appropriate to the tone of the responses now. ...some people are never satisfied... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards, Bill ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/122684-faulty-m9-returned-this-is-my-letter-to-leica/?do=findComment&comment=1342670'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Hi bill, Take a look here Faulty M9 Returned... This is my letter to Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
plasticman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #102 Posted June 3, 2010 ...some people are never satisfied... [ATTACH]205790[/ATTACH] Regards, Bill Yeah - I'M the guy who brought the tone of this thread down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #103 Posted June 3, 2010 Mani, here's a thought. Lighten up. Not everyone has an agenda, or an axe to grind, or a chip on their shoulder. Not everyone takes every single word written here as gospel, let alone seriously. Go and read some Ibsen or something and cheer up, for goodness' sake! Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #104 Posted June 3, 2010 Mani, here's a thought. Lighten up. Not everyone has an agenda, or an axe to grind, or a chip on their shoulder. Not everyone takes every single word written here as gospel, let alone seriously. Y'know what Bill - how about we don't make this thread all about me. Whatever else, I'm sick of reading the self-righteous and pompous admonitions, and I'm tired of the widespread bullying and mockery of anyone who questions the M9. Yeah it was all meant in good spirits - all just a good-natured little joke? Take a look through the whole thread once more. I'd hope it might give the next poor b*stard who has a problem half a chance to be able to have his or her say without being ridiculed or told that they "Blame others, try nothing, await spoonfeeding, demonstrate the patience of a gnat". But I doubt it'll make any difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #105 Posted June 3, 2010 Y'know what, Mani? The only one making this thread all about you, is you. I have always had time for you, but it seems like you need a break. I stand by everything I said. I am sick to the back teeth with the people who reach for the Start New Thread button before either engaging brain or giving Leica a fighting chance to resolve their issue before crucifying them on the altar of public opprobrium. The OP came across like that; subsequent posts and his body of work indicate otherwise and I have freely acknowledged that. Anything else is your problem. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #106 Posted June 3, 2010 The OP came across like that; subsequent posts and his body of work indicate otherwise and I have freely acknowledged that. And not just you...What is wrong with admitting that a first impression was too limited? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 3, 2010 Share #107 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) And not just you...What is wrong with admitting that a first impression was too limited? And, me too. I get now that he really just wanted to vent and talk about this problem. But, I won't fall in line with the rest of the sycophants and praise him like the second coming. I got to go tape up the handgrips on my walker now - see yah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #108 Posted June 3, 2010 I was the one who kicked off the looking at the website - I still like his third-world shots - but hey:) that's me, I have a thing with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 3, 2010 Share #109 Posted June 3, 2010 I was the one who kicked off the looking at the website - I still like his third-world shots - but hey:) that's me, I have a thing with that. I know you pointed them out first and you did wax a little obsequious. But, they are really cool pictures. I did think of some of your shots when I looked at his pictures. The colors in those pictures are fantastic. I better stop now. I'm starting to dislike him again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #110 Posted June 3, 2010 It was the photograph of the toothbrush and the Salvadora twig that was the turning point.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 4, 2010 Share #111 Posted June 4, 2010 This is some sort of a record -- 110 posts in response to a reported problem with the M9, 108 of which are about everything except the reported problem. I read the forums to find out about the M9's quirks and ways to use it effectively. I also find out a lot about the personalities of the regular posters, but that is far less interesting. I've been told that the engineering team in Solms does assign some poor soul to monitor these threads for early warnings. Two posts in this thread contain an important warning, but we've buried it by now. Sam Faulkner reported that his M9 didn't recognize an SD card that seemed OK in other cameras. He's not the first to see that. Also, this happened to him intermittently, again not the first (I've seen that, fixed by removing and replacing the card). But since he didn't notice that the card was briefly not recognized, he lost shots while the camera was not writing to the card. A second poster (can't find it right now, but it's there) did the obvious experiment. He took his own no-drama M9, removed the SD card, and took a series of shots and found that unless you looked at the LCD at the right moments, there was no clue that the pictures would not be recorded. If you shoot without an SD card (and apparently when the camera thinks there is no SD card), the shots are retained in the internal buffer. If the camera is powered off without a card, all that is in the buffer is lost immediately. (With a card, the shutoff does not occur until the writing is complete and the buffer is empty.) If the buffer fills and there is no card to write to, the data is discarded without the usual write delay. That seems a wrong design to me. If the buffer can't be written the shutter should block, as it does while the buffer is emptying normally and still too full for the next shot. That way you know something is wrong without looking at the LCD. Maybe the shutter simply should be blocked when there is "no SD card" recognized. I don't see the value of allowing a few shots to be saved internally, but only for as long as the camera is kept turned on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierparkmagazine Posted June 4, 2010 Share #112 Posted June 4, 2010 I see no problems with the letter. If you got two clunkers, you got two clunkers. I am a pro, however, and I use my M9 everyday and managed to lock it up once in that time period. I use sandisk extreme cards and have no problems. I wish, however, the camera would not take a picture without a card. Seems like a simple firmware update... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 4, 2010 Share #113 Posted June 4, 2010 This is some sort of a record -- 110 posts in response to a reported problem with the M9, 108 of which are about everything except the reported problem. I read the forums to find out about the M9's quirks and ways to use it effectively. I also find out a lot about the personalities of the regular posters, but that is far less interesting. I've been told that the engineering team in Solms does assign some poor soul to monitor these threads for early warnings. Two posts in this thread contain an important warning, but we've buried it by now. Sam Faulkner reported that his M9 didn't recognize an SD card that seemed OK in other cameras. He's not the first to see that. Also, this happened to him intermittently, again not the first (I've seen that, fixed by removing and replacing the card). But since he didn't notice that the card was briefly not recognized, he lost shots while the camera was not writing to the card. A second poster (can't find it right now, but it's there) did the obvious experiment. He took his own no-drama M9, removed the SD card, and took a series of shots and found that unless you looked at the LCD at the right moments, there was no clue that the pictures would not be recorded. If you shoot without an SD card (and apparently when the camera thinks there is no SD card), the shots are retained in the internal buffer. If the camera is powered off without a card, all that is in the buffer is lost immediately. (With a card, the shutoff does not occur until the writing is complete and the buffer is empty.) If the buffer fills and there is no card to write to, the data is discarded without the usual write delay. That seems a wrong design to me. If the buffer can't be written the shutter should block, as it does while the buffer is emptying normally and still too full for the next shot. That way you know something is wrong without looking at the LCD. Maybe the shutter simply should be blocked when there is "no SD card" recognized. I don't see the value of allowing a few shots to be saved internally, but only for as long as the camera is kept turned on. Thanks Scott. You are now post 111 explaining at length what everyone knew when they first got the camera and shot without an SD card. Right or wrong, a lot of cameras do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted June 4, 2010 Share #114 Posted June 4, 2010 Thanks Scott. You are now post 111 explaining at length what everyone knew when they first got the camera and shot without an SD card. Right or wrong, a lot of cameras do this. What's with the attitude? I certainly don't shoot without an SD card, so I was surprised. More important, the M9 has the unusual habit of sometimes forgetting that it has an SD card in it, which makes this behavior a problem. Which had disappeared in the thread because of all the sniping. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted June 4, 2010 Share #115 Posted June 4, 2010 Snapper -- I find your position reasonable, and don't fault your airing it here. But it doesn't make sense to me to go out on a shoot with a client, in Morocco no less, without a backup camera. I'm an amateur (not a lawyer or dentist, nor even, as Chris is, a PhD!) But when I'm going on a trip, or doing something where the camera simply has to work, I'll bring my trusty old M8 -- yes, you read that right -- as a backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 4, 2010 Share #116 Posted June 4, 2010 What's with the attitude? I certainly don't shoot without an SD card, so I was surprised. More important, the M9 has the unusual habit of sometimes forgetting that it has an SD card in it, which makes this behavior a problem. Which had disappeared in the thread because of all the sniping. scott Ok,sorry. I need to go do something else for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted June 4, 2010 Share #117 Posted June 4, 2010 .. it doesn't make sense to me to go out on a shoot with a client, in Morocco no less, without a backup camera.... I think the subtlety of the problem has been lost in the argument. The real issue is the failure was silent and he didn't know he had a problem. In which case any and all back ups are going to be completely useless. It's a fair point and could happen to anyone if the card becomes jolted loose from its connection and you're not chimping. If you're embedded on a challenging documentary job and connecting with the subject, you most certainly are not looking at the LCD after every shot.... BTW - I wish people would stop telling him he needs a back-up camera. I'm sure he's well aware and probably has several. Not too many repair shops in the Columbian barrios.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper UK Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share #118 Posted June 8, 2010 A week since I gave my camera to my dealer, (who assures me he sent it off the next morning)... still no word from Solms.... will up date when I hear back... hopefully not too much longer. Thank you to everyone who took the time to look at my website. Sam Faulkner, Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper UK Posted June 11, 2010 Author Share #119 Posted June 11, 2010 So I called Solms today to find out what the situation with my M9 was. It is now 10 days since I took it back to my dealer in London. Apparently it was only logged onto the Solms system this morning, despite arriving at Leica UK in Milton Keynes last Thursday. I am pretty unimpressed with how long it took so I called David Humphreys the customer service supervisor for Leica in the UK. He said that the decision to replace my camera or not had to be made by the commercial director who was away when the camera arrived and that was the delay. Unfortunately it was decided NOT to replace my camera because of the cosmetic condition of it. Maybe if I had kept it in a glass case rather than tried to earn a living with it then I could have got a new one. The letter which I sent with the camera never even made it to Germany.... Just as well they can read it here if they want to! I am not very happy with how long this is taking and am not very happy that they are not replacing the camera that was clearly faulty straight out of the box just because after 6 months use it has a few marks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 11, 2010 Share #120 Posted June 11, 2010 ...not very happy that they are not replacing the camera that was clearly faulty straight out of the box just because after 6 months use it has a few marks. Had you rejected it straight out of the box, as is your right, you might have a reason to complain. The incontrovertible fact that you have used it for six months, means "deemed acceptance" applies which rather negates your argument in this regard. You are in the territory of "goodwill" now. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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